11-23-2011 at 10:56 PM

I posted a topic like this one awhile back. No one seemed to like it. XD But,I'm terrable at getting my thoughts across the web so...X3<br /> Getting to my point,support,I have always liked this idea mainly because it makes trials unfair to all who have entered low TP dogs.

11-22-2011 at 1:24 PM

I think this could be a great idea only because, there aren't very many people who like trialing their foundie against a monster dog. I for one agree with Al, when I don't want to waste money for a monster dog to win and my dogs keep losing. I have a couple of 1k dogs, but they can't beat monster dogs and it would take a miracle if they could. The reason for people having filler dogs, is so their higher TP dogs can win, not everyone else's. I find it rather rude when someone's trying to win a couple of bucks with their not-so-high TP dogs, and someone else comes in with a monster dog and ruins it for them. Since there's an option to allow certain breeds in a user-made trial, why can't there be an option to allow dogs with certain TPs in trials too? For example if I made a trial in the Odie level, there would be more higher TP dogs entering and there would be hardly any low TP dogs entering, due to the unfairness. Once a player has hit a certain level in trialing, they give up because it's impossible for their dog to beat others. I know we can make our titles say that their are restrictions, but that doesn't always stop players who are looking for easy wins. Just yesterday, I made a trail for dog's with 600 to 999 TP only, and when the trial was over, I noticed a person with an obviously higher TP'ed dog had entered and not payed attention to the title. If there were an option to limit TPs, I think everyone could finally make a buck sometime while trialing low TP dogs. This also brings me to a real life question. You wouldn't trial a 2 year old dog whose had little experience on a course than a dog who is 5 and knows the course by heart, would you? Their the same principles. If low TP dog can't beat a monster dog, then what good does the dog do for the player?

11-21-2011 at 10:05 AM

I just experienced entering into 14 different trials, and I lost at least half of them because there were 3 monster dogs in it. -.-

11-19-2011 at 1:16 PM

I don't think we can make an exception for one person, unfortunately. Just because you put effort into maxing what you can, it doesn't mean anyone else will. It's unfortunate, but if people actually took time to train (so they weren't maxed by 8 months) this wouldn't be as big of an issue.<br /> <br /> However, water bowling is how almost all people train these dogs. <br /> <br />

11-19-2011 at 1:13 PM

Even then, though, it isn't fair to those of us who work hard (there's that term again!) to max our dogs. I will not water bowl her, no matter how much I want to. And I will not breed her because she is related to every other high TP dog out there. So even though I'm doing everything right (maxing her by hand rather than rush, not popping out more puppies) she's going to get sidelined from mainstream competition? <br /> <br /> From what I understand, the <i>whole point</i> of trialing is that the higher the TP, the better your dog will place. Where do we draw the line? If TP capped dogs are eliminated from trials, the dogs with 7999 TP will automatically win. Should we boot them too? If they're relegated to the sidelines with the TP capped dog, they have no chance at winning. But hey, that's okay - kick them out too. Then the 6k TP dogs will move in and take over. Then 5k. Then 4k. Where does it stop? Should everyone with a dog over 1k TP be booted from mainstream competition?<br /> <br /> I'm just trying to understand what you're asking for.

11-19-2011 at 1:04 PM

That obviously isn't what anyone is saying. I was suggesting capped TP dogs be removed from mainstream competition. That's it.<br /> <br /> There's no reason for them to be trialing with other dogs. They'll always win, and since they're bred like rabbits, four more will replace the one that just moved up, pinning everyone else down to the lower levels. Unless, of course, they trial against themselves - which again, I don't believe in. Everyone with dogs that don't meet this TP will either waste money trialing until they breed a capped dog, or not trial and miss out until they reach a capped TP dog. <br /> <br /> The dog will then compete against other capped TP dogs, until all of them have perfect stats at which point, I assume the winner is chosen at random (effectively eliminating this "hard work").<br /> <br /> Gee. What fun.

11-19-2011 at 12:50 PM

Goodness.. I do see why it's a problem and I'm offering a solution that doesn't involve ruining the site for people who have high TP dogs. <br /> <br /> These seem to be conflicting arguments... It sounds to me like you're saying the point of the game is to breed high TP dogs, but not trial them in any way (either by entering one TP capped dog in a trial, or filling your trials with your own dogs) because the point is not to give yourself automatic wins. Well, high TP dogs just about guarantee a win. So should we stop trialing all together?

11-19-2011 at 12:39 PM

"Why did I start doing this? Because some people with waterbowled monsters were hogging all the trials and I wasn't winning anything. When I started collecting and maxing monsters, I wanted to show some common courtesy and not trial-snipe. "<br /> <br /> I don't understand how if this has happened to you, you're unwilling to see why it's a problem for the rest of us. While maybe the point of the game is to breed high TP dogs, the point of the game is NOT to give yourself automatic wins. I honestly don't see why trialing your dogs together isn't against the rules, because you're rigging who will win and eliminating the competition. You no longer win for beating your <i>competition</i> you win because you entered four dogs that had a lower TP than your other dog, who you want to advance through the trials so he could make you a lot of money.

11-19-2011 at 12:31 PM

I understand where you're coming from, but I think instituting something that limits the trials high TP dogs can enter into would kill those of us who actually <i>work</i> to max these dogs. I'm working on maxing a TP capped GSD right now. I food bowled her and am hand maxing from there up. Why shouldn't I be rewarded for all my hard work when I'm finished? It's taking me a long time to max her (so much so that I've frozen her for now while I get my Cata line started), and the only thing that keeps me going on her is the knowledge that, when I'm finished, she'll be able to win almost any trial I put her in. <br /> <br /> Here's a solution: Don't punish some users for reaching the goal of the site. Rather, adopt a bunch of low- to mid-TP dogs from the pound (I'm trying to start a group of 0-10 TPs to use as fillers), max them, and use them as a trial team. By doing this, I've managed to create trial teams for each level. I use these trial teams to get my high TP dogs to higher levels, kind of like stepping stones. I only compete my high TP dogs against my own dogs, unless I absolutely can't.<br /> <br /> Why did I start doing this? Because some people with waterbowled monsters were hogging all the trials and I wasn't winning anything. When I started collecting and maxing monsters, I wanted to show some common courtesy and not trial-snipe. <br /> <br /> I think it's less a matter of the site instituting a rule and more a matter of decency.

11-19-2011 at 12:30 PM

I support moving TP capped dogs away from competing with other dogs.<br /> <br />"Your talk of lowering the TP cap is in my eyes asking to punish people who put out a lot of time, money and effort to make those dogs. Punishing people for one of the main goals of this game?"<br /> <br /> I think someone was trying to establish the point that there's nothing difficult about water bowling, breeding and repeating. People can afford to do that because their dogs make so much money because a 3k TP dog obviously can't compete.

11-19-2011 at 12:16 PM

So, I can't reply to what everyone said so here's my litte reply XD<br /> <br /> <br /> I'm not angry at the fact that people have TP capped dogs and are trialing. If it comes out that way, then I'm sorry. I'm mad specifically at people who DON't have filler dogs and bring in 3-4 dogs while yours is in a competiton/leaves the rest open. I've experienced a time when almost every trial avaliable had at least 3 monster dogs in it.<br /> <br /> That's why I'm happy to know that people DO use filler dogs for these trials. I don't want to punish anyone, by no means, by putting up suggestions and such. I just feel like we need something to help level out the playing field here.<br /> <br /> Okay, don't lower the TP cap, I understand what you guys are saying. But is there a way so that trials aren't over run by monster dogs without filler dogs? I mean, I'm not going to spend $1000 in entry fees for a monster dog trial to go, and none of my dogs win.<br /> <br /> Maybe if all dogs in a trial got money if they placed in 4th/5th? Like $10 for dogbert, $30 for scooby, $50 for odie,, etc.?<br /> <br /> I'm just spewing out thoughts here, but by no means am I hating against those who have worked hard for those pups

11-19-2011 at 5:57 AM

<i>"Your talk of lowering the TP cap is in my eyes asking to punish people who put out a lot of time, money and effort to make those dogs. Punishing people for one of the main goals of this game?"</i><br /> <br /> No, because it's just a huge money dump. We're trying to fix the Ala economy, not try to fix it at the same time as dumping tens of thousands of $$ PER TRIAL into peoples pockets.

11-19-2011 at 5:49 AM

Please consider my following statement a personal perspective of my experience, and not an argument. ^^;<br /> <br /> I've several 2k-3k dogs in which do not have a trial team to assist them. They often compete against users including 9k dogs with great success.<br /> <br /> Viewing the trial pages show the competition and I often use that to determine whether or not to enter.<br /> <br /> <center>My Dog: 2k TP<br /> <br /> Trial Participants:<br /> 1. 1.3k TP<br /> 2. 9k TP<br /> 3: 1.7k TP<br /> 4. 3k TP<br>5. Empty</center><br /> <br /> I would enter my dog in the above trial as it still guarantees winning 3rd place.<br /> <br /> I believe that trials are intended to be a competition as well, and do not expect a dog below 1k to reach very high levels without a team. <br /> <br /> It would otherwise defeat the purpose of breeding for higher TP dogs except for pride alone, because it is very possible to make more profit over time out a larger line up of lower range dogs than investing heavily into capped ones.<br /> <br /> 9k dogs without trial teams will inevitably reach higher levels and face other dogs of the same level, which the competition will even out at that point. :)<br /> <br /> I do think it is natural for a lower TP dog to hit their peak early on well before Otis trials and do not think it should be changed to level restrictions to bypass that.<br /> <br /> The inherent flaw in having a restriction such as 150 TP - 1500 TP with next level being 1501 TP - 3000 TP is that a dog with 1490 TP (or number nearest to bracket restriction) will still dominate the lower trials and become the new "capped" dog.<br /> <br /> It will also gain a minor TP boost per participation, and if it reaches 1501+ TP, it will become the lowest dog in the next bracket and will likely not win at all either. ^^;<br /> <br /> The proposed change would actually oust beginner players even faster.

11-19-2011 at 3:49 AM

Same as what Crevan said. We paid out tons for our clean line of huskies. We will never make the total cost that was poured into:<br /> buying customs<br /> buying pups from other players<br /> buying food bowls<br /> buying insta pups<br /> the value of the TS we spent<br /> buying the water bowl for the end product<br /> <br /> For us the capped dog was more about the challenge getting to the maximum potential that line had, not milling the end result to go troll people in trialing. I'm still working on other lines, just for funs and the reward of the capped dog at the end. Your talk of lowering the TP cap is in my eyes asking to punish people who put out a lot of time, money and effort to make those dogs. Punishing people for one of the main goals of this game? Really? That sounds like a very bad idea. I say it is bad, because breeding clean lined dogs to capped is very expensive, even if you are able to split the cost with someone. If the return wasn't worth the cost, then there would be no point in even trying, so then people like myself would simply stop putting out money for lines and just accumulate absurd amounts of money.<br /> <br /> Also, as Crevan said, I trial agaist myself primarily. I even have customs up in the oldie level to act purely as fillers. This way I'm not beating out other people with my higher TP dogs, but also I'm still at least gaining some money. It's really not a lot of work to trial up some low TP dogs to act as fillers for your better dogs. If I can manage to kick some foundies and customs into oldie with minimal effort, surely anyone can. <br /> <br /> In my opinion the way this is reading to me is that some people are angry that people have worked hard for a very long time and are now having success? It took me nearly a years worth of training and breeding to have the monster huskies I have now. I already stated that a large bulk of my show dogs are 1.5k-3k dogs, they pull about half of my daily earnings from trails, so I'm still failing to see how anyone else might be having issues showing non monster TP dogs. Its been pointed out that if you want, you can fill up a trail with your own dogs, and not have any monsters in your trails. If you leave it open, then that's a risk you have to take. I've been sniped by people with maxed capped dogs. I simply shrug and go on to the next trail, my fault for not ensuring it couldn't happen is all.

11-19-2011 at 3:31 AM

I don't support changing the trialing system. It's unfair to people who put the time and money into a line. I just got capped huskies (clean lined, mind you) with Evy and it would be quite unfair to have trials blocking them out simply because we put time and effort into a line xP Yes I water bowled the end result, but the rest of the line was food bowled and trained by hand for the most part. That is a ton of time, and money. This water bowled end of line dog is not going to earn itself back, let alone the entire line it took to get it.<br /> <br /> If you don't want to risk getting beat, get filler dogs. I use filler dogs even for my capped dogs so I rarely enter other people's trials (unless I have one extra dog or something that needs trialing) for the most part, though, I use filler dogs and keep to myself :3

11-19-2011 at 12:06 AM

But either way Clay, you had good reasoning :)

11-18-2011 at 10:00 PM

Ohh!!! I get it. Thank you for this information :)<br /> Yeah I can see how waterbowling trial, tp-capped dogs can be a problem now.

11-18-2011 at 9:11 PM

See, I feel like that would be a nice thing to do Turkee, is to have filler dogs so that you aren't scrrewing someone over.

11-18-2011 at 9:11 PM

Maybe just as there is a dog breed restriction in the dropdown list for people who create their own trials, there can also be a tp range dropdown list.<br /> <br /> That would work.

11-18-2011 at 9:10 PM

I run 5 dogs at a time. That way, my capped dog, and the one just below it, rarely end up in someone else's trials. <br /> <br /> I intentionally bring dogs up 5 or 6 at a time, to use as filler dogs.<br /> <br /> However, sometimes it is inevitable, you will get a higher tp dog in a trial.