04-17-2013 at 2:23 PM

Well we're not really discussing how easy/hard it is to avoid accidental pregnancies, but the health affects of spaying/neutering verses not spaying/neutering, and when is the correct time to do so.

04-17-2013 at 2:08 PM

I have two unaltered females. It is a personal chojce not to spay them. They are always leashed and supervised, regardless if they are in heat or not. The only thing i dont do is bring them over to visit my sisters dogs during their heat cycles and about 6 weeks after they stop bleeding just to be sure. She has an intact male. Even when they arent in heat, they are always supervised around him or any maledogs. It isnt hard to prevent pregnancy even if you choose not to spay your female. It just takes responsibility on the owners part.

03-30-2013 at 1:10 AM

Actually, every heat in cats and dogs increases the risk of mammal cancer. so unless it is a breeding dog, always fix before the first heat. <br /> <br /> And yeah that's scientifically proven and easy to google :)

01-31-2013 at 2:20 AM

My mother is a vet and I am around a lot of vets and experienced dog breeders. Spay/neuter done before the dog is fully mature affects growing and can increase the risk of related cancers later in life. For females, ideally wait until after their first heat, and for males, talk to your breeder about what age dogs from their lines typically fully mature. If you don't know your dog's breeder, talk to any breeder that specializes in your dog's breed or whatever breed(s) you think your dog is. Most breeders care a lot about the health and well-being of their breed, and should be happy to help you. If you do know the breeder of your dog and he/she either won't respond to you or has no clue, then you should probably try to find someone more invested in the health of their lines for your next pup.<br /> <br /> As for the, "But what if they reproduce?" question. If you keep your male properly confined (ie: fenced yard, walked on lead with you, and/or trained to come when called regardless of distractions), he won't do anything unfortunate. If you have a female and keep track of her behavior and such, it is very easy to tell when a bitch is in heat. At that point, keep her away from any intact males in your household, and don't let her go anywhere loose and/or unattended in case other people have not trained/confined their male dogs. If you have a breeder, you can ask him/her if there have ever been instances of silent heats and such in their lines. <br /> <br /> Honestly, it is not that hard to prevent dogs from reproducing, even with intact individuals of both genders. It just takes a little thought and management, both of which a person *should* have committed to investing when they first decided to get a dog. <br /> <br /> Note: I have owned four bitches, two of which were spayed when they matured, two of which are intact (one intact bitch is almost 8 years old, the other is 1 year old). Our household has also always included at least one intact male, and we have had no "oops" litters. Personally, I think that for the rest of my dogs I will probably wait to spay until they are well into their senior years, at which point the risk of mammary/ovarian cancer and pyometra go up a lot. For the boys, I probably won't neuter unless they have prostate issues. <br /> <br /> My two cents, and as always, your mileage may vary.

01-28-2013 at 10:11 PM

I have no experience or done any research on the effects of SN on rabbits, but you bring up good points, Alec. I would think that very strong bones would be important in rabbits because of the shock from running (though I'm not sure if domestic rabbits hop/run a lot).

01-28-2013 at 9:59 PM

Although my opinion isn't based on dogs or cats, it's based on rabbits.<br /> A lot of rescues and vets say to alter the rabbit at six months, like most animals, to prevent breeding.<br /> <br /> The problem with doing this to rabbits is these rabbit often have issues with their bones, weight, build and development, as I've personally seen. If you alter a Flemish Giant at six months of age, the rabbit will not grow up to look like a Flemish Giant. Most of these rabbit's body mass is bone, their meat weight is considerably less than most large breed rabbits. Flemish are very large, require a lot of food, and require a lot of calcium compared to other breeds. Without hormones, they don't absorb the calcium they require.<br /> <br /> When you take hormones away from a developing body you increase the chance of bones not developing as strongly as they should, although our pets don't live as long as we do consider the effects on a human female after they hit menopause. Usually they start developing osteoporosis, it can run in families but usually it's the lack or decrease in hormones because they're not absorbing the calcium required.<br /> <br /> If I alter a rabbit, I don't do it until around two to three years.<br /> But I rarely, if ever anymore, do that. I've had rabbits for a long time, even a six year old male netherland dwarf is still developing in body, fur, and build as he ages. Although slowly, you can tell it's all male-related hormones because he gets thicker, blockier, and more filled out. Thus, I don't believe in altering rabbits at all unless it's truly for their benefit like if they're just pets or they have a medical issue. But, it's easy to keep rabbits separated unlike dogs and cats.<br /> <br /> But the development of bones is pretty important, without a rabbit that has good bone how do you expect that rabbit to stay healthy?

01-27-2013 at 4:37 PM

Yeah, most dog breeds are done growing at around 1 year, but giant breeds like Great Danes sometimes take around 2 years

01-27-2013 at 4:30 PM

Herp... I ws always told that your best leving a bitch until she's had a heat cycle... with males i'v been told9months to 1yr, as most breeds have stoped growng by that point

01-27-2013 at 10:18 AM

Yup, you're right Aust. A bitch can get pregnant as soon as she has her first heat, and it's dangerous because she still may technically be a puppy :/<br /> <br /> I understand why shelters S/N that early, and it's a shame they have to. Would be too much of a hassle to chase everybody around with a mandatory spay/neuter contract.. and they could have bred the animal before they're forced to get it fixed ;/

01-27-2013 at 9:23 AM

I believe a female could get pregnant before a year and males can defiantly get a girl pregnant before a year, but it is a matter of opinion.<br /> <br /> However, I do believe this:<br /> Around 8 weeks is too early. <br /> <br /> If shelters around my local area get a pup or some puppies, they are always fixed around 8 weeks, about when they are put up for public adoption. <br /> <br /> I get the cause and there's no other way to do it, but I think that is too early since they are still developing and just kids.

01-26-2013 at 9:58 AM

It's all a matter of opinion, Aust. It's an opinion that you really can't reverse if it goes wrong, however.<br /> If your dog is fine, that's great, but I personally would have waited one year.<br /> There are numerous reasons (that I've cited in that big long TL;DR post below) that support spaying/neutering at or after one year, because of the complications spaying/neutering earlier.<br /> However, I can't really say whether you should have waited or not, because it's not really a choice that can be reversed.. I just would have waited until 1 year myself :)

01-26-2013 at 9:54 AM

My vet told me around six months was a good time to spay my spaniel, so I got her spayed at that time. Should I have waited? She's perfectly fine now. I just didn't want to deal with her going into heat.

01-23-2013 at 7:50 PM

Yeah, Kermit, that definitely is something to worry about. I was very worried about the time frame before I got my female fixed (she had gone into a few heat cycles but I was set on getting her spayed at 1 year).

01-23-2013 at 7:45 PM

I never felt that it was necessary to spay my little girl (cat) Lucy since there are no intact male cats in our home, and she has NEVER been outside. I felt like it was mean to put her through surgery and risk her life unnecessarily. HOWEVER, a few months ago, she ended up getting a uterine infection from being left un-spayed. This could have killed her, and it cost over 300$ to take care of!! I have learned my lesson, as the vet informed me that this is fairly common in older un-spayed cats (Lucy is almost 8). I will always fix all of my future female pets, it may save their life, and it definitely saves money in the end. In the case of my pure breed German Shepherd, Soleil, she was spayed at 5 months, as per vet recommendation.

12-21-2012 at 10:55 PM

Well that's what a debate is for :P Not about changing ones opinion, but providing reasons for an opinion through credible resources.<br /> I believe that a lot of the "chop em when they drop" reasoning comes from the 30's or so when people spayed/neutered pets simply as a means of being less annoyed by their pet's behaviour (as well as the obvious , legitimate reasons regarding the unwanted pet population), but more recent studies have shown that this is more damaging when done so young.

12-21-2012 at 10:31 PM

I think that there are just as many studies that are positive, as there are negative. <br /> <br /> It just shows that it is a continuing debate within the medical field.<br /> <br /> When I have time, I'll sort through and find them, but it would just end up being a bunch of articles from both sides, with no real resolution of what is correct. :)

12-21-2012 at 10:26 PM

I mean I agree that cats should be spayed a bit earlier (definitely not when kittens) because there is a significant risk of mammary cancer/tumors with the coming of each heat cycle, but my belief about neutering/spaying dogs is akin to castrating a teenager when they just start puberty, it would severely stunt the growth and bodily functions of the teen.<br /> The sexual organs contribute to hormones throughout the body like testosterone and estrogen, and these hormones are necessary in both genders (with more estrogen being in females, more testosterone being in males) to shape and allow the human to grow. Females get more fat, more curves, males get more muscle and height. To castrate a human when they just start puberty would be insane, I mean you can see 6 foot tall 15 year old dudes out there lol, and this is due to genes (of course) but testosterone throughout puberty.<br /> It would be disasterous for us to do this to humans, and it's disasterous to do this to animals (in my opinion) until they're fully grown.<br /> <br /> Loree, your source does not really touch on the negative effects of neutering dogs before 1y of age, just cats (which I agree wholly with)

12-21-2012 at 10:20 PM

I firmly believe in waiting at least 1 year before neutering dogs, my sources are as follows:<br /> <br /> <a href="http://m.theglobeandmail.com/life/relationships/pets/when-to-fix-fido-a-dog-owners-dilemma/article2250232/?service=mobile">When to fix Fido: a dog owner's dilemma -- Canadian Medical Veterinary Association</a><br /> "<i>While common practice says six months is the preferred age to have the surgery done, some owners are wondering whether common practice is always the best practice.<br /> Not necessarily, says Jim Berry, vice-president of the Canadian Medical Veterinary Association and companion animal practitioner at the Douglas Animal Hospital in Fredericton, N.B. New, yet-to-be published research may show that neutering before 12 months of age can lead to body-development issues – such as longer and disproportioned legs – in larger, male dogs, says Dr. Berry.<br /> As neutering changes hormone levels, some believe that neutering large, male dogs before they are fully mature will affect their growth."<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.cnpca.org/2010/12/what-age-to-spay-or-neuter-your-pet/">What Age To Spay or Neuter Your Pet -- Colorado National Pet Association</a><br /> "<i>Evidence shows that spaying or neutering your dog before a year of age allows the growth plates to remain open, resulting in your pet becoming taller than he or she normally would. This occurs because the sex hormones communicate with other growth-related hormones that promote the closure of the growth plates at puberty. Hence, the bones of dogs altered before puberty continue to grow. Furthermore, sex hormones are also important for achieving peak bone density."<br /> "Another recent study showed dogs neutered before 5 ½ months of age had a significantly higher incidence of hip dysplasia than those spayed or neutered after 5 ½ months of age."<br /> "A study of over 3,200 dogs showed that dogs neutered before a year of age had a significantly increased chance of developing bone cancers, such as osteosarcoma."</i><br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.2ndchance.info/spayneuter.htm">When to Spay, When To Neuter -- Dr. Ron Hines DVM PhD</a><br /> <i>"We see these bone tumors most frequently in large and giant breeds of dogs that are already predisposed to them through their excessive bone growth. Spay-neuter before one year of age significantly increases the development of these tumors</i><br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.claircrest.com/Problemswithearlyspay-neuter.pdf">The Question Of Neutering and at what age -- Gregg Tonkin, Little River Labradors</a><br /> "<i>Yes, neutering prior to the beginning of estrus does reduce risk for mammary cancer in females, but it also significantly increases risk for urinary incontinence in bitches which predisposes these bitches to diethylstilbestrol (DES) dependency (Stocklin-Gautschi et al., J. Reprod. Fertile. Suppl. 57:233-6, 2001 and many other references)--in some instances, DES is not effective at controlling incontinence and will force some owners to elect euthanasia. Though with lesser risk compared to females, early neutering also increases risk of urethral sphincter incontinence in males (A. Aaron et al., Vet Rec. 139:542-6, 1996.)"<br /> "With regard to cancer, spayed females have a 4 times greater risk for developing cardiac hemangiosarcomas (vascular tumors) compared to intact females (neutered males also show a significant increase in risk for these tumors compared to intact males) (Ware and Hysper, J. Vet. Intern. Med. 13:95-103, 1999.). Additionally, both neutered males and females have a 2-fold greater risk for developing bone tumors (osteosarcoma) compared to intact males and females (Ru et al., Vet J. 156:31-9, 1998.)."<br /> "Some evidence suggests that early neutering may also predispose to endocrine disorders later in life (Panciera DL. J. Am. Vet. Med. Assoc., 204:761-7 1994.). Furthermore, there is also an indication that early neutering (because absence of sex hormones delays maturation of osteoclasts and thus results in delayed closing of the growth plates in the long-bones) may predispose to increased risk for various orthopedic disorders (such as cruciate ligament disease as I had mentioned in a previous post). Also, some evidence suggests that there is a correlation between increased time for growth plate closure and incidence of HD in Labs (Todhunter et al. J. Am. Vet Assoc., 1997)."<br /> "If one conducted a research of the literature on the detrimental effects on physiological development associated with sex hormone deficiencies during adolescent development in any other species other than the dog and cat, one will find a wealth of literature stressing the importance of sex hormones for sound physiological, endocrine and metabolic development."<br /> "A study by Salmeri et al in 1991 (Salmeri et al JAVMA 1991;198:1193-1203) found that bitches spayed at 7 weeks were significantly taller than those spayed at 7 months, and that those spayed at at 7 months had significantly delayed closure of the growth plates than those not spayed (or presumably spayed after the growth plates had closed). The sex hormones close the growth plates, so the bones of dogs or bitches neutered or spayed before puberty continue to grow. This growth frequently results in a dog that does not have the same body proportions as he/she was genetically meant to. For example, if the femur is normal length at 8 months when a dog gets spayed or neutered, but the tibia, which normally stops growing at 12 to 14 months of age continues to grow, then an abnormal angle may develop at the stifle."<br /> "In addition, with the extra growth, the lower leg below the stifle becomes heavier (because it is longer), causing increased stresses on the cranial cruciate ligament. This is confirmed by a recent study showing that spayed and neutered dogs have a higher incidence of CCL rupture (Slauterbeck JR, Pankratz K, Xu KT, Bozeman SC, Hardy DM. Canine ovariohysterectomy and orchiectomy increases the prevalence of ACL injury. Clin Orthop Relat Res. 2004 Dec;(429):301-5)."<br /> "In addition, a study in 2004 in JAVMA (Spain et al. JAVMA 2004;224:380-387) showed that dogs spayed or neutered before 5 1/2 months had a significantly higher incidence of hip dysplasia than dogs spayed or neutered after 5 1/2 months of age."<br /> "In addition, when considering cancer, there is another study of 3218 dogs that showed that dogs that were neutered before a year of age had a significantly increased chance of developing bone cancer (Cooley DM, Beranek BC, Schlittler DL, Glickman NW, Glickman LT, Waters D, Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2002 Nov;11(11):1434-40), a cancer that is much more life-threatening than mammary cancer, and which affects both genders."</i><br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf">Long-term Health Effects of Spay/Neuter In Dogs -- Larry S. Katz, PhD, National Animal Interest Alliance</a><br /> "<i>On the negative side, neutering male dogs<br /> • if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a<br /> common cancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a poor prognosis.<br /> • increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6<br /> • triples the risk of hypothyroidism<br /> • increases the risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment<br /> • triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems<br /> • quadruples the small risk (&lt;0.6%) of prostate cancer<br /> • doubles the small risk (&lt;1%) of urinary tract cancers<br /> • increases the risk of orthopedic disorders<br /> • increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations"<br /> "On the negative side, spaying female dogs<br /> • if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a<br /> common cancer in larger breeds with a poor prognosis<br /> • increases the risk of splenic hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 2.2 and cardiac hemangiosarcoma by<br /> a factor of >5; this is a common cancer and major cause of death in some breeds<br /> • triples the risk of hypothyroidism<br /> • increases the risk of obesity by a factor of 1.6-2, a common health problem in dogs with many<br /> associated health problems<br /> • causes urinary “spay incontinence” in 4-20% of female dogs<br /> • increases the risk of persistent or recurring urinary tract infections by a factor of 3-4<br /> • increases the risk of recessed body part, body partl dermatitis, and vaginitis, especially for female dogs<br /> spayed before puberty<br /> • doubles the small risk (&lt;1%) of urinary tract tumors<br /> • increases the risk of orthopedic disorders<br /> • increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations"<br /> "The traditional spay/neuter age of six months as well as the modern practice of pediatric spay/neuter appear<br /> to predispose dogs to health risks that could otherwise be avoided by waiting until the dog is physically<br /> mature, or perhaps in the case of many male dogs, foregoing it altogether unless medically necessary."<br /> "This risk was further studied in Rottweilers, a breed with a relatively high risk of osteosarcoma. This<br /> retrospective cohort study broke the risk down by age at spay/neuter, and found that the elevated risk of<br /> osteosarcoma is associated with spay/neuter of young dogs14. Rottweilers spayed/neutered before one<br /> year of age were 3.8 (males) or 3.1 (females) times more likely to develop osteosarcoma than intact dogs.<br /> Indeed, the combination of breed risk and early spay/neuter meant that Rottweilers spayed/neutered before<br /> one year of age had a 28.4% (males) and 25.1% (females) risk of developing osteosarcoma."<br /> "A logical conclusion derived from combining the findings of these two studies is that<br /> spay/neuter of dogs before 1 year of age is associated with a significantly increased risk of osteosarcoma."</i><br /> <br /> (I have more, but I feel this post is gonna be super long lol)

12-21-2012 at 9:58 PM

Here is a source:<br /> <br /> http://canadianveterinarians.net/documents/dog-and-cat-spay-castration#.UNUhWXdnh6g