04-4-2011 at 8:51 AM

Actually someone who was responsible would of prevented that...Also it's not good to let them eat things from the wild. <br /> <br /> Since when? you ever heard of deer hunting? we make that into saucage slice it up raw put it on a cracker its gooood

04-4-2011 at 8:44 AM

Actually someone who was responsible would of prevented that...Also it's not good to let them eat things from the wild. There are so many diseases, you should at least freeze it for a week to kill bacteria.<br /> <br /> <br /> And my argument wasn't about birds, it was about keeping the cat from the dangers of being outside...cars, other cats, dogs, contagious diseases, poisons, even humans can be dangerous to a cat.

04-4-2011 at 8:32 AM

Oh and I'm not scared, it's called being responsible for my animals. And like I said, I don't gamble with my pet's lives.<br /> <br /> I AM responsible for my animals if my cat brings in a defeathered bird, ill take it to the vet. if he kills it, he can have it he worked for it.

04-4-2011 at 8:11 AM

Sigh.....<br /> I never said your cat wasn't I was setting an example that a cat can be contained and be happy. -_- <br /> <br /> Oh and I'm not scared, it's called being responsible for my animals. And like I said, I don't gamble with my pet's lives.<br /> <br /> You even said that even in the house they're not safe, and they sure as heck aren't safe outside.<br /> <br /> " what is so wrong with that besides the fact that you dont personaly agree with it?"<br /> <br /> This is a debate. And it has been said SO MANY times. I'm done repeating. <br /> <br /> Tschüß<br /> <br />

04-4-2011 at 7:21 AM

And mine isnt? Look i get it your scaird of letting your cat outside because of all the things that could "possibly happen to him" But im not. if i dont let him out he sits at the door and SCREAMS that horable low cry sound cats do. It makes my cat happy to go outside. and i know my cat wouldnt do something stupid like walk into a road. we have had him for over a year, there has never been a "accident" he stays in the block, he dosent cross the street. hes safe and happy. what is so wrong with that besides the fact that you dont personaly agree with it?<br /> <br /> on a side note, lets keep all small chirldren cooped up in the house too. my guess is they kill more birds with bebe guns that cats kill a week.

04-4-2011 at 4:19 AM

A: It's not keeping them cooped up. My cat is very happy and a total goof. He's in great shape and gets a bunch of exercise inside the house.<br /> <br /> And I don't think you should keep cats contained just because of the birds. It's for their OWN safety. My cat's life is far too valuable to me to gamble with.

04-4-2011 at 4:11 AM

I already answered that question earlier. And strays are prevented by responsible owners and not letting your cat outside.<br /> <br /> i let my cat out, i let him out a few minets ago in fact, he will be back in the morning just like always.<br /> <br /> i still find it funny that 1 out of every 6830 birds that die are killed by cats. and people think the cats should be cooped up because of it.

04-4-2011 at 4:04 AM

I already answered that question earlier. And strays are prevented by responsible owners and not letting your cat outside.<br /> <br /> And thank you.

04-4-2011 at 3:57 AM

Therefore them killing, is unnecessary.<br /> <br /> so strays dont kill birds because people feed them all?they wouldnt hunt a bird for food?<br /> <br /> and welcome back celestia

04-4-2011 at 3:54 AM

Sorry, I took my dogs out to the park for a walk.<br /> Thank you Nath and Crayton..<br /> <br /> Like Nath said, a Lion is meant for hunting a gazelle, and the other animals they prey on. If they don't hunt, they'll die. So it is necessary.<br /> <br /> A cat, does not live off birds. They live off the food we humans give them. (It's part of being domesticated.) <br /> Therefore them killing, is unnecessary.

04-4-2011 at 3:53 AM

heres from your own link. <br /> <br /> Typically, baby wild birds will be knocked out of their nest by a fellow nest-mate<br /> <br />

04-4-2011 at 3:52 AM

Ok Jambers, I'm trying to have a civil debate here but I can see all I'm going to get is an immature argument, so I'm done.

04-4-2011 at 3:47 AM

outdoor pet cats across an urban to rural gradient killed an average of .683 birds each week during the breeding season.<br /> <br /> oooh beware the cat who killed a little more than half a bird...<br /> <br /> ment to be funny not offencive.

04-4-2011 at 3:36 AM

Uhmmm Jambers. That makes little sense.<br><i>A Clutch of Blue Jays can have anywhere from 2-7 eggs</i><br>Okay. 2-7 eggs. I have never seen 7 baby bluejays. The last baby bluejay family i saw had only TWO babies.<br><br><i>so lets say there are 12 cats, and 10 blue jays.</i><br>Is that 10 FEMALE bluejays [with babies] or 5 male, 5 female? <br><br><i>(now i dont know about other peoples cats, but mine is fat and lazy)</i><br>One of my cats is lazy but can take off like a rocket after a squirrel when he escapes outside. :I<br>As for the "pushing babies out of nests"? Wrong: <a href=http://www.articlesbase.com/bird-watching-articles/top-five-myths-about-rescuing-baby-wild-birds-942852.html rel=nofollow>http://www.articlesbase.com/bird-watching-articles/top-five-myths-about-rescuing-baby-wild-birds-942852.html</a> <br><br><b>Cats kill birds:</b><br>- <a href=http://news.mongabay.com/2007/0509-wind.html rel=nofollow>http://news.mongabay.com/2007/0509-wind.html</a><br><i>"Domestic cats kill "hundreds of millions" of birds per year."</i><br>- <a href=http://birdchaser.blogspot.com/2008/03/cats-kill-over-1-billion-birds-each.html rel=nofollow>http://birdchaser.blogspot.com/2008/03/cats-kill-over-1-billion-birds-each.html</a><br><i>"According to a study in Michigan by Lepczyk et al, outdoor pet cats across an urban to rural gradient killed an average of .683 birds each week during the breeding season.<br>IF you can extrapolate that across the full year, that would be an average of 35.5 birds killed by each cat/each year. IF you can use that figure for all outdoor cats, you get a calculation of 4.1 billion birds killed each year."</i><br>- <a href=http://wildlife.wisc.edu/extension/catfly3.htm rel=nofollow>http://wildlife.wisc.edu/extension/catfly3.htm</a>

04-4-2011 at 3:25 AM

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Jay"> Click for Blue Jay information</a><br /> <br /> A Clutch of Blue Jays can have anywhere from 2-7 eggs, they hatch 8-12 days after being layed, it can take one or two months before they leave the nest. The mating season begins in mid-March, peaks in mid-April to May, and extends into July. so lets say there are 12 cats, and 10 blue jays. from what ive seen on this fourm most of those cats are inside, so lets say 5 or 6 of those cats are indoors, and the blue jays have now layed there eggs and are feeding there young, (now i dont know about other peoples cats, but mine is fat and lazy) 3 of the chicks fall out of the nest (this happends) now its exposed to the elements, and my cat eats the baby bird on the ground. (funny how the artical didnt menchion how meny of the birds fell out of there nests eather isnt) so now we have 67 baby birds, some get sick, the parents push them out of the nest to prevent the other chicks from dieing (this too happends) lets say 15 of them this happends to. two of the bluejays are cought by a cat there goes an entire nest, 7 babys gone down to 38 blue jay babies. That is a fair amount, now my cats fixed, he wont be increaseing the pet population, meny have menchioned there pets are fixed as well. the blue jays arnt fixed all 38 of them will be back to help increase the population the next year even though a large amout have been somehow killed. But the next year there will be 266 bluejays being born. things happen, you see dead baby birds on the sidewalks all the time. (if you havent come to my town ill point one out for you) the point is LIFE WILL find a way, it just flat out will. The articals where interesting, however they should have offered more information on the birds, like how meny where taged, how meny where sick, how meny where pushed from the nest before being eaten. But the artical does not cover this, it simply says that 47% of the birds KILLED not the total amount mind you but of the just the ones killed where killed by cats. it offeres absolutly no information on HOW they where killed by cats, just that they where. <br /> <br /> And 200 years is a long time for nature not to have adapted to cope with cats killing birds. If anything they have adapted. There are still birds, there will ALWAYS be birds. life finds a way, and my cats and my moms cats will still be alowed outside if they want outside.

04-4-2011 at 3:22 AM

<i>"Cats come from bigger cats its only with careful breeding that they are now demestacated. however no animal is TRULEY demestacted"</i><br>.......no, people did not breed big cats into the cats we have as pets today. & yes, cats are 100% domesticated. & the birds who were in that survey probably didn't fall out of the nest, they were probably dead birds found, and the scientists discovered how they died. For instance, a bird laying on the ground beside a window probably flew into the window. A pile of feathers on the road with guts probably means it was hit by a car. A pile of feathers in a backyard probably means it was attacked by a cat.<br><br><i>"your going to have a hard time convinceing a lion not to pick out a old or sick gazell."</i><br>....what? What does that have to do with what Celestial said?

04-4-2011 at 2:53 AM

There's a <i>difference</i>. Lions were <i>meant</i> to hunt gazelles (although they more often go after zebra and other, larger, slower herd grazers).<br /> <br /> Cats did not evolve alongside North American wildlife...at least, not like the cats we know. We introduced an invasive and incredibly successful predator into an already unbalanced ecosystem (because of our own irresponsibility). They have alternate food sources, in most cases, so they do not face starvation and natural selection. They are artificially propped up and they breed incredibly quickly. Of course they're going to out-compete every other creature in the area...none of them has had a chance to evolve for this possibility. This is an entirely new predator and predation method in their world.<br /> <br /> I don't think you've actually even considered the studies I've shown you. You're just arguing to be "right." So you can have the last word, now.

04-4-2011 at 2:43 AM

There is no excuse for unnecessary death, period.<br /> <br /> your going to have a hard time convinceing a lion not to pick out a old or sick gazell.

04-4-2011 at 2:40 AM

There is no excuse for unnecessary death, period.

04-4-2011 at 2:37 AM

You completely ignored the population boom we caused.<br /> You can never introduce a foreign species into an ecosystem with no casualties. Period.<br /> <br /> This isnt about a population boom. this is about cats killing birds. and i agree with the you can never introduce a foreign species into an ecosystem with no casualties that is true, birds have died. but not gone extent over it. <br /> <br /> Youve compleatly ignored my question as well. How meny of those birds where sick or starveing? Or pushed out of a nest by a sibling because there wasnt any room?