07-20-2012 at 5:03 PM

My German Shepherd has Severe ADHD, so training was very hard for her. She needed to learn to walk on a leash properly, so he recommended a prong collar. It has metal prongs that make the dog uncomfortable when you enforce it. The prongs are DULL and connot hurt the dog if you are using it correctly. He informed me that choke collars can actually cause brusing of the neck, and if you use a prong collar right, then it can't. Prong collars are wonderful things, my Shepherd now can do things she normally wouldn't on command

04-26-2012 at 7:21 AM

<b>If used properly the dog learns if it pulls forward it gets it nose pulled back</b><br /> That isn't a correction, though. It's like guiding a horse around with a head halter. It doesn't correct the dog from showing aggression to another dog, it just awkwardly bends his head around. A prong collar "bites" the dog when he shows aggression and the dog says "hey, I don't like that feeling, I'll listen to you". A GL is like putting a piece of cardboard between the dog's face and the other dog, it just makes it so he can't face the dog, that doesn't mean he won't snarl and growl.<br /> <br /> <b>You also don't walk the dog on a long enough lead for it to beable to serge forward enough that they hit the end of the lead with enough force to yank their neck back and get rug burn. </b><br /> It doesn't have to be a long lead, I had a Gentle Leader, the dog can walk 1-2 feet ahead and his head gets jerked back.

04-26-2012 at 6:01 AM

If used properly the dog learns if it pulls forward it gets it nose pulled back but you also do some training along with it. You also don't walk the dog on a long enough lead for it to beable to serge forward enough that they hit the end of the lead with enough force to yank their neck back and get rug burn. <br /> <br /> We use them at school on our dogs when we walk them through the building and stuff. We have 1 very strong minded possibly pitbull, newfie mix when we put them GL or Haltie on him he calmed down quite a bit while hes on leash after only a few weeks of having him. We have another dog who is PSYCHO hyper, its a struggle to do ANYTHING with her, shes some kinda wirehair pointer mix or something. With in a couple of days of having her and using the GL/Haltie to walk her from the kennels to the area we exersize them in she figured out if she walked next to us rather than be crazy she didn't get her nose pulled.<br /> <br /> <br /> Any time I use them I have my hand about 1' or less from the end of hte leash and when they pull or act up i pull slightly back on the lead and it pulls their nose down toward their chest i would say like 90% of the time the other 10% of the time it might pull their head slightly to the side. Now if i gave the dogs a longer lead and allowed them to get in front of me and they decided to bolt up then i bet they would get their neck pulled back with more force.<br /> <br /> I would say out of the 12 dogs we have only like 5 of them rub at their face to get the Haltie off when i take the leash off to play, when I use a GL maybe 2 or 3 of those dogs will still rub. <br /> <br /> I hate the structure of the Haltie, it pulls more up sideways on their face when its on and they put tension on the leash. The GL stays in place since the nose part is adjustable and seems way less irritating.

04-19-2012 at 9:39 PM

You claim that if a dog <b>really</b> wants to attack something, it will still go for it... now will you please explain to me in what way a Gentle Leader "trains" a dog not to pull/whatever people use them for? 'Cause as far as I can see, it just looks like it jerks the dog's head back and gives it rugburn on it's face.

04-19-2012 at 7:09 PM

I don't think anyone has ever claimed that a GL is a control device, its a training device, they're also meant to be used along WITH a collar. <br /> <br /> Shoot in controlling an aggressive dog the only think controlling the dog is the handler's physical strength. We have a military dog flunk out, dog was trained for protection but would not take to being trained for other jobs and dogs that won't multipurpose are flunked out of the program. Those dogs are then adopted out into civilian hands. This dog supposedly is a great dog at home, but in our clinic want's nothing more than to rip our throats out, hes protecting his owner. The husband is the only one who can control him outside of the house, he comes in muzzled(the type we use in the clinic for biters, not a cage muzzle) and it takes all of the husband's strength to keep that dog from getting us, he wears either a martingale or prong collar, I'm not sure, I've only seen him a few times, the 1st time i walked up front to take their other dog to the kennels for boarding, and the next thing i saw was lunging, barking snarling dog. The 2nd time was in the kennel during their stay with us, he was being kept in our Rabies quarantine cage so that the cage could be cleaned w/o risking lives to get him out. I walked up to a dog's cage 2 cages down to get it out for something and all i saw was his teeth trying to get me through the gate...<br /> <br /> <br /> My point in all of that is a dog who really wants to get at another person/animal and is not trained properly to ignore those impulses no matter what kind of collar/restraint device they have on, the only thing that will keep them from doing that is their handler. <br /> <br />

04-19-2012 at 5:33 PM

I'm not talking about yanking the dog's head back yourself, I'm talking about the dog taking off ahead and having it's head yanked back. It's happened.<br /> <a href="http://www3.sympatico.ca/tsuro/_articles/gentle_leader.html">http://www3.sympatico.ca/tsuro/_articles/gentle_leader.html</a><br /> <a href="http://dogsintraining.wordpress.com/2011/03/29/not-so-gentle-leader/">http://dogsintraining.wordpress.com/2011/03/29/not-so-gentle-leader/</a><br /> <br /> A gentle-leader does not control a dog's aggression or excitement for another dog, it just turns the dog's head around. It's the same as if you were to put a piece of cardboard in the dog's face so he can't look at/get at the dog.<br /> IMO, stick with the martingales and prongs, people.<br /> <br /> I mean.. ahhaa.. "Gentle Leader injury" brings me multiple reports that contain things like "Gentle Leader®. Dr. Anderson has investigated all of the injury reports that have come to his attention and continues to actively solicit any injury report"<br /> <br /> Must happen an AWFUL LOT for "Dr.Anderson" to come out publicly about it, no?

04-19-2012 at 10:08 AM

I've used them on crazy hyper dogs at school and I've never had to yank on them, I gently pull their nose back and stop walking each time they try and surge forward and eventually they learn if they walk next to me they get to go forward and don't get turned.<br /> <br /> <br /> Pinch/prong collars can be used incorrectly and cause harm just like any training device.

04-18-2012 at 10:42 PM

<i>"The snap sound is used as negative reinforcement instead of a clicker used for positive reinforcement. And i doubt when they were called choke chains when they were first made just like prong collars people call pinch collars. You keep it up at the top of the neck to have control of the head just like a show leash."</i><br /> You can use a clicker to signal positive or negative reinforcement. If I want a dog afraid of a leash, I'll terrify him with it. If I want him to love the leash, I'll associate it with good things. If I want a dog afraid of men with hats, I'll have men with hats act scary around him, if I want him to like them, I will have them give him treats. It doesn't matter.<br /> Prong collars are called pinch collars because the teeth pinch, choke collars are called choke collars because they strangle the dog.<br /> <br /> <i>"Personaly i prefer gentle leaders. But ofcorse like any training device there are wrong ways to use them. People use prong, chain martingale and gentle leader/halties all wrong and cause injury. Just like people walking their dogs on halters (other than ones with trachea problems)."</i><br /> I'm not a fan of Gentle Leaders at all, if you have a jumping/pulling dog (G.L were MADE to train dogs not to pull by jerking the head back) you're looking at potentially severe spinal damage.

04-18-2012 at 6:03 PM

The snap sound is used as negative reinforcement instead of a clicker used for positive reinforcement. And i doubt when they were called choke chains when they were first made just like prong collars people call pinch collars. You keep it up at the top of the neck to have control of the head just like a show leash. <br /> <br /> <br /> Personaly i prefer gentle leaders. But ofcorse like any training device there are wrong ways to use them. People use prong, chain martingale and gentle leader/halties all wrong and cause injury. Just like people walking their dogs on halters (other than ones with trachea problems). <br /> <br /> I HATE when people bring their dogs into the clinic on halters... a lot of the time when i take a medium/large dog with a halter on to the back for blood draw or something I will put a slip lead on them so they have a little less power to pull me around... One guy even brought his dog in on one of the halters used on police/military dogs for bite work...he had NO control of the dog in the lobby and if the dog had decided to try and eat another animal.

04-18-2012 at 2:45 PM

If they're not used to apply pressure.. could you explain to me why the people who advocate their use tell people to keep them at the top of the neck and use a "choke chain" instead of a clicker? One would think that if a sudden noise was what they're after they would use clicker training, yes?<br /> <br /> It's called a "choker" or a "choke chain" for a reason.

04-18-2012 at 10:32 AM

Choke chains are not meant to be used to apply pressure, all you're supposed to do is pop it slightly just to make the noise. They're not supposed to be use to train a dog not to pull.

04-17-2012 at 9:32 PM

Aussie, it's still damaging to use it that way. You're quickly applying hard pressure on the dog's trachea. It would be better if it were a martingale or a prong collar, where the pressure is evenly distributed throughout the whole collar.. but a choke chain applies pressure on the opposite side of the dog only.. which is usually the trachea because the dog is being trained not to pull.<br /> <br /> My thoughts? Choke chains shouldn't be sold.

04-17-2012 at 5:55 PM

Choke chains are fine as long as you use them right! You are not supposed to hold your dog back with it. If you need to do that, i would recomend a normal old collar & leash. <br /> Choke Chains can be a great obedience training tool. You are supposed to use it as something the dog hears when it gets out of line... all you do you gently pull on the chain to make it "snap" a couple of times, then release. It is just like saying "No"<br /> <br /> They are not to be used as a rope to tie your dog up. I have never heard of them hurting any dogs & it certainly is NOT inhumane as long as you use it right!<br /> <br /> I hope this helps!

04-4-2012 at 9:04 PM

Choke chains are extremely dangerous, I recommend using a prong collar instead.<br /> A lot of people will say "no way! They stab holes in the dog's neck!"<br /> <br /> When used properly, no they dont. There are also no cases of a dog strangling itself/causing trachea damage/killing itself with a prong... but there are with choke chains.

04-4-2012 at 8:09 PM

I use a choke chain on my dog because when she sees other dogs she likes to run at them full speed to "Play." Her version of playing involves jumped and pushing. So we just pull back and she feels it on her throat and she stops. She doesn't have any marks and she doesn't squeal or anything so I'm guessing it doesn't hurt her. It is really efficient.

02-26-2012 at 3:57 PM

From my experiences,they are safe when fastened and used correctly.

02-26-2012 at 11:24 AM

Also they can still pant and drink and do other things, just protects things from their teeth. We used them for our sheep at show where they had ceder chips for the pen flooring...

02-26-2012 at 10:27 AM

I'd suggest a cage muzzle as well. We used those for our Greyhounds whenever they went to the rescue to run (they had a huge field). They give you the protection of a muzzle without making your dog look really menacing. And when the dogs got into fights, the worst that happened was that they banged muzzles and didn't do any damage!

02-25-2012 at 10:57 AM

If someone was to get a muzzle for a dog like yours Al i would suggest a cage muzzle over the muzzle used a the vet offices to prevent bites that holds the mouth mostly shut (there's usually enough room even in a snug fitting one to get a tongue out but we never leave them on long term because the can't properly pant)

02-24-2012 at 9:17 AM

Oddly enough, we were never fond of muzzles. We're perfectly fine with the choke collars, but muzzles are a different story. <br /> <br /> We don't take her out as often now because her joints are becoming worse and she doesn't want to walk as much. So I don't even know if getting one now is worth it seeing as how soon she's going to lose all ability to even walk it seems -.-