09-21-2012 at 12:51 PM

To bad this thread seems to be dead now. <br /> <br /> Seems by now it is about impossible to be successful with dogs under 4k TP in Toto unless you stalk the trials all day hoping for someone to trial for TP only to trample over their dogs. My Toto dogs have only seen a handful of trials, and even Odie is difficult.<br /> <br /> This is really not fun. Of course I could simply stop trialing but that would even be less fun with no wins on the dogs' pages. <br /> <br /> And asides, why bother training at all, then? ;(<br /> <br /> So I will be forced to train up more monsters to be able to win. Then others will do the same. Eventually there will only be monsters and trialing will only be a matter of chance, no tactics involved at all.

09-19-2012 at 4:20 PM

<b>It is the rate of what is being earned daily and being used actively every day that is affecting the site the most. It is being able to make generous amounts every day and not being stored in the bank account that makes the largest reflection.</b><br /> <br /> I'm confused... so people making and then spending money are the problem? But you also want money sinks?

09-19-2012 at 3:08 PM

This has probably alredy been asked, but I have not read threw the 5 pages of chat on here yet. However my questin is, by the time a dog finaly does make the higher levels you sopke about, arn't they normaly around 14 or 16 years old? When you cut the age to 16, dosen't that make it harder to get to the higher levels? I know when training Ehm, he was around 10 before I could finaly trial him.

09-18-2012 at 11:32 PM

<b>"The interest collection for the common top 20 richest Alacrity players is around a million per week to 1.5 million."</b><br /> <br /> This actually prompted me to a look around for just how much the top 5 richest players I could find make up of the total active money on Ala right now. My finding was that those 5 (myself included) own 42% of total as of right now. I only based on banked money, as it's easier to keep track of, and seems to stick around in an account longer than money on hand :) <br /> <br /> I think stats like this are very important to consider, to gain a better view of how our economy is doing right now, instead of just looking at one giant number and freaking out about it. ^^;;

09-18-2012 at 10:34 PM

Jack, may I ask why you chose to edit the post to change the top 20 to 25 instead (along with adjusting numbers)? I was just wondering what the reasoning behind it was with the data and such. <br /> <br /> I will reply on other things later. This was just a quick question I wanted to ask before I called it a night. ^^<br /> <br /> Edit: I am also wondering how many -active- users play on Alacrity. Sure there are over 20,000 signed up but how many of those aren't side accounts and still play actively?

09-18-2012 at 6:30 PM

This is segment is more for the sake of interest rather than argument:<br /> <br /> The interest collection for the common top 25 richest Alacrity players is around a less than a million (average ~500k) per user and with less than a fourth earning over a million.<br /> <br /> Whilst the average overall cash rise per non-interest day is more than well above. Even more so since the frisbee game adjustments.<br /> <br /> Curiously enough most of these players are not the ones actively changing the economy since they are not the ones spending often and many are not logged on daily to begin with . This used to be the case but that was still due to the rate of daily earning and not banks. It is the rate of what is being earned daily and being used actively every day that is affecting the site the most. It is being able to make generous amounts every day and not being stored in the bank account that makes the largest reflection. <br /> <br /> The database indicates that bank interest isn't the most detrimental problem by far.<br /> <br /> ------------------<br /> <br /> My personal opinion as a user is that I prefer not to attack or change the bank interests given the information nor players whom utilize it, but rather I am in favour of more money sinks that do not force users to spend; but make it enjoyable.<br /> <br /> I have seen many suggestions on the suggestion forum that can help accomplish this and have moved them for reviewing.<br /> <br /> I would like for the staff to strive towards new changes to adapt to the situation as opposed to going back to change old features or deduct from them. This is often easier said than done and sometimes unavoidable, but I believe too many constant changes on what people are used to may create a very upsetting and negative experience that will result in a hoarding mentality due to fear of what might change next.<br /> <br /> I would very much like to see more towards new features that will help accomplish this, and not a battle between players who have saved money versus players in the process of doing so. I'd like to see solutions fun and enjoyable for everyone and a more united community mind with new challenges for us ahead to invest in.<br /> <br /> I realise not everyone would agree with my thoughts, but I hope they may be taken into consideration. :)

09-18-2012 at 5:50 PM

I tend to find that most of those against changing interest are those making the most from the current interest rates. At most I was able to make at least 1mil off of interest every week and I know there are those that make even more.<br /> <br /> Banks should give bonuses but at the percentage they are at is very high. From other sites they go by percentage based on how much you have. <br /> <br /> 0-100,000 = 5%<br /> 100,0001-500,000= 3%<br /> 500,001-1,500,000= 2%<br /> <br /> And then it continues on and on. I can't quite remember if the percentages grow or shrink as you gain more money but there is usually a system in place based on how much is in your bank. I've never been able to gain so much cash on other sites from interest even though I would be considered the 'richer' half. So yes to bonuses but they need more regulation. <br /> <br /> A static interest rate is not working in favor of the site when there are those with over 50mil and bringing in millions of new cash each week.<br /> <br /> ----------------------<br /> <br /> As for the trialing, I don't trial and never have. It is too tedious and boring to me, it's just not an aspect I take on with the game. I respect that there are those that use it and are concerned with what is going on. I do think some adjustments are needed but I'm unsure if the continuous changes are a positive thing or not. I see this mainly hurting the newer members and those that aren't earning outstanding bank interest.<br /> <br /> Currently those with huge chunks of cash don't need to trial anyways and can earn tons each week by clicking a button. This trialing will only seem to affect those that don't already have a high cash amount. <br /> <br /> Things are very sticky when it comes to economies in general. No one is able to agree whether it is on here or in the real world. I think economies naturally have recessions and inflations. I believe everything will sort out but in the meantime I can see everyone having their own opinions of what to do and their own thoughts. I just hope we can all be civil and not be too blaming or demanding :).<br /> <br /> *Side note: I agree with Clayton about it feeling like 'cheating' when you fill an entire event with your own dogs. That's not part of the competitive spirit!<br /> <br /> I think the point shop is a very interesting idea as well. I am curious to see how that plays out. While I don't actively play the game much, I still find it nice to see what changes come about. What if we had image trophies for a dog's page when they reach certain trial scores? The score each dog earns from events that the money is based off of can all be added then divided by how many events the dog has been in for an overall score. I think that'd be fun! Dogs that reach like 9000 could get a bronze trophy, 15000 a silver, etc. It's more just adding to a fun factor to trials. It wouldn't change the system. Perhaps this could even be a whole separate high scoreboard along with top dawg? Top dawg could be more TP related and the other board could be score related? <br /> <br /> Anyways these are just my thoughts! Hope someone found it interesting, insightful, or at least something to make boredom go away. ^^

09-18-2012 at 2:25 AM

I would be more in favor of targeting these players spending their massive amounts of money<br /> I understand what you're talking about but I find it incredibly unfair.<br /> <br /> I'm not sure how this is unfair? By targeting them spending their money? It doesnt mean they HAVE to spend their money, just using ways to possibly make them spend their money. I really have no idea how this is seen as unfair or not a good idea. Things like this were suggested many times in the past (auction off special dogs, or other things of the sort that will get some money out of people) It's not a forced thing, it's a decision to buy if you wish to, or not to if you don't.<br /> <br /> In fact you kind of hinted at the same kind of idea... xD<br /> <br /> <br /> "We will in the long run. As cash flow stalls, less money comes in, more money gets spent.<br /> I don't really spend any money unless I'm buying a dog, buying dog slots, or maybe an item here and there. I've said it before and I'll say it again, a perfect item that is a cash sink is Baby Griffins/Storks/Sleighs. It's like lotto tickets.<br /> Choke off the cash flow, release "lottery items" and people will dump their money. Until someone sees an item they really want, they won't spend their money (like me)."<br /> <br /> <br /> Just thought I'd also add about the bone thing, I'm not sure if it's entirely true anymore, but I do know there was a player a while ago that was buying every bone off the market. I know because they would buy 10-20 bones from my auctions when I used to sell bones. Almost immediately, too.

09-18-2012 at 1:48 AM

<b>No one was saying that people with bank interest should be punished?<br /> Not outright saying it but this is the exact quote: "perhaps a bank limit should be implemented?"<br /> Because people are using interest the way it was intended to be used (save your money and you will make money), we're going to strike at them and force a limit on their bank because they saved..?</b><br /> <br /> Several games with much more stable economies than Ala's seem to be have found real benefit in this. Realistically it is rather silly to think that having a <i>free</i> couple of mill <i>every</i> week is not hurting the economy at all. I must also point out that would be in <b>addition</b> to anything you make at trailing, games, user shop or any other source of income. I am also saying this as a person who has spent YEARS saving up money on ala, just for the bank interest payouts. <br /> <br /> It's not as if you'd be saying "Hey you were successful, now give us all your money back" It is <b>exactly</b> the same idea behind capped dogs. That was implemented when it was pretty obvious that newer players would never have chance to catch up unless there was indeed a limit or "cap".

09-17-2012 at 8:26 PM

<b>No one was saying that people with bank interest should be punished?</b><br /> Not outright saying it but this is the exact quote: <i>"perhaps a bank limit should be implemented?"</i><br /> Because people are using interest the way it was intended to be used (save your money and you will make money), we're going to strike at them and force a limit on their bank because they saved..?<br /> <br /> <b>No matter how much trial payouts or whatever are diminished</b><br /> We will in the long run. As cash flow stalls, less money comes in, more money gets spent.<br /> I don't really spend any money unless I'm buying a dog, buying dog slots, or maybe an item here and there. I've said it before and I'll say it again, a perfect item that is a cash sink is Baby Griffins/Storks/Sleighs. It's like lotto tickets. <br /> Choke off the cash flow, release "lottery items" and people will dump their money. Until someone sees an item they really want, they won't spend their money (like me).<br /> <br /> <b>these people with more ala cash than they know what to do with are the ones probably driving bone prices up..</b><br /> Not entirely true. I've seen newer players and players with not as much money buying bones for 100k or so. It's not just the rich players buying them (lol I don't even buy bones). <br /> <br /> <b>I would be more in favor of targeting these players spending their massive amounts of money</b><br /> I understand what you're talking about but I find it incredibly unfair.<br /> <br /> ========<br /> <br /> &lt;bThe point of the game being just breeding higher TP dogs should go out of the window.</b><br /> The point of the game is to breed higher and higher-TP dogs and then <i>trial them</i> to make money.<br /> <br /> <b>For someone with a dedication, reaching capped dogs in every breed is just a matter of a few generations, breeder perk and chances.</b><br /> Speaking from experience, it's very hard on your own and if you have strict standards. It's much easier if you don't care about inbreeding or colour or anything, but still takes time and money.<br /> <br /> <b>New players have it harder and harder because their lower TP dogs aren't worth much.</b><br /> We all start out as new. When I started out as new I got the gist of the website and started breeding higher and higher. :/ That's what all players need to do if they want to make money.<br /> <br /> <b>Not everyone has the possibilities to train even a 5k dog. Or a 2k dog. Someone without collar and perk and no extra sessions may as well forget about even training a 1k dog.</b><br /> I didn't when I was new, either, but that didn't stop me from training dogs, trialing dogs, breeding dogs, etc etc and climbing the ladder to get where I am now. I bought my first capped dog and maxed it with a MWB that I bought for 1.5 mil $$. I had 3 mil total, and this was before I ever had a capped dog. I got there by buying, selling, maxing, training, trialing, etc. It is <b>not impossible</b> to make money without a Scholar Collar, Chance, Amur, etc.<br /> <br /> <b>And then you spent all the long time, just to find the dog gets stuck in Toto (as it is the case for lot of my dogs, hard to find trials not overrun by even higher TP monsters already).</b><br /> My dogs are not TP monsters (you can see them in my Trial Dogs kennel. Ignore Kayak, I don't really trial her much anymore), but I still make money with them and they are not stuck in Toto. I have a few in Marley and the others are moving right up through Toto.<br /> <br /> <b>Trialing teams were fun because you needed to carefully think about who to place in what team when. It was also fast, even I was done in an hour or three.</b><br /> If you are taking this long to trial your dogs and it's severely inhibiting your gameplay, perhaps you should cut back on the amount of dogs you own? It's not a problem with Alacrity in this case. I have like 7 dogs that I trial (non-capped) and they make money and take me (tops) maybe 7 minutes to trial them all if Ala isn't being sick with lag.<br /> <br /> <b>Frisbeeing? It's fun for a bit, but I fell asleep over it twice yesterday and not even done today thanks to lag. It takes less time to do it than to trial, in theory, because you can click all the dogs off one after the other, but it is also a lot less exciting. As much as watching paint dry after a while.</b><br /> A quick way to trial is hit spacebar --> choose dog --> click frisbee --> hit spacebar --> choose dog --> click frisbee, etc. Spacebar jumps down the page so you can do it really fast. Takes me like 3 minutes to do it.<br />

09-17-2012 at 2:18 PM

" believe, it would lead to more new users leaving than staying (which is a problem as-is, because they don't feel they can do anything or afford anything without buying bones with money), and the overall userbase being more unhappy."<br /> <br /> I keep seeing people say these changes are supposed to help newbies, but not listening to the comments from newbies saying it's not helping.<br /> <br /> Up until the changes, I enjoyed trailing and spent a lot of time getting on to trial my dogs. Since the changes, I'm not trialing at all. <b>As a newbie it is now not worth it to trial my dogs</b>, I lose money by trialing and it's no fun to either. If this change is supposed to help newbies and convince them to stick around, why is it the lower trials(that newbies can actually enter and win) have been altered? I enjoyed this site before the changes and find it much less enjoyable now.<br /> <br /> I have rl money to buy bones and with people I was going to refer here so I could get the rewards, but both of those seem pointless now. The site isn't as fun, I don't want to spend money here if these changes will stay, because I won't enjoy the site as much and am less likely to stay.<br /> <br /> I don't see how it's helping the economy, from chat:<br /> "I made 1.75 mil or close to yesterday, and as they seem to have lowered the payout again, it was about 1 mil "<br /> An older user talking about frisbee payouts.<br /> <br /> I'm just really disappointed, the game was much more fun before this :(

09-17-2012 at 1:10 PM

I'm a collector, meaning I want/need one of everything, which is, despite my many items, not yet the case. I also really really don't want to have to think about what to buy and what not. That is a RL issue I don't want on Ala. One reason why I spent so much on bones. <br /> <br /> I was under the impression money in banks doesn't even count, just what you have on hand?<br /> <br /> The point of the game being just breeding higher TP dogs should go out of the window. That may have been the intention, but in the end, the game is played through in that regard. The cap has been implemented. For someone with a dedication, reaching capped dogs in every breed is just a matter of a few generations, breeder perk and chances. New players have it harder and harder because their lower TP dogs aren't worth much. <br /> <br /> Not everyone has the possibilities to train even a 5k dog. Or a 2k dog. Someone without collar and perk and no extra sessions may as well forget about even training a 1k dog. And then you spent all the long time, just to find the dog gets stuck in Toto (as it is the case for lot of my dogs, hard to find trials not overrun by even higher TP monsters already).<br /> <br /> Trialing teams were fun because you needed to carefully think about who to place in what team when. It was also fast, even I was done in an hour or three. <br /> <br /> It was even fun with 4 dogs, to an extend, except the endless hours waiting for someone to enter trials. This got so cumbersome I didn't want to go on Ala for days. Now? I waited all day yesterday and I hardly found a few trials to enter in (as I now have a lot fewer to pick from) and didn't even make 30k each account by the time I counted. That's the end of fun. <br /> <br /> Frisbeeing? It's fun for a bit, but I fell asleep over it twice yesterday and not even done today thanks to lag. It takes less time to do it than to trial, in theory, because you can click all the dogs off one after the other, but it is also a lot less exciting. As much as watching paint dry after a while. <br /> <br /> What the lack of trials did was hamper my customs and other dogs in TP gain. While this is disappointing, I am mostly breeding for color so I can simply scratch that objective. <br /> <br /> But I believe we can expect some stability in this game, not constant band aids that in the end won't work. <br /> <br /> Being given promises - like shop prices going down again and then later to be told that would only happen at some imaginary point in the future felt like false advertising to a lot of us. Yes, maybe a few people had been aware it meant "when you have less money" but most of us did not. And since none of us wants to have less money, I believe we won't spend more of it when there is a growing danger of things being changed around again and again and we never now what the income will be, and for how long. <br /> <br /> I didn't hoard money before the changes to trials were made the first time. I spent most of my daily earned cash on stuff like timestops and timewarps. I stopped doing that in favor to saving up to be on the safe side. So did others. I think there will be even more hesitation now to spend money. <br /> <br /> As far as items in user stores getting more expensive - can't it be done so that nothing is allowed to cost more than twice the amount it was bought for? This would mean fixed list prices for everything but it would put a stop to crazy ideas about how much things can cost. I believe a lot of the overpriced items are so because the seller has no idea about its worth or unrealistic hopes<br /> <br /> Please excuse any typos or slightly confused wordings, migraine strikes again.

09-17-2012 at 12:02 PM

"I would not be in favor of punishing those with lots of money through bank limits. I made my money through trialing and saving. I rarely buy anything or any dogs. I train and trial, that's it.<br /> <br /> EDIT: Bank interest is a reward for saving money, that's the purpose of it. Why would we want to punish users for doing something that they should do in the first place?"<br /> <br /> No one was saying that people with bank interest should be punished? Unless I missed something. We were saying this in response to Larth saying the approximately 2 billion needs to be cut; the 2 billion is owned in large part by a few people mostly, so chances are it's not going to get cut. No matter how much trial payouts or whatever are diminished, the people with the large amounts are not getting hurt by the changes. More so, for me at least, I'll just be saving more due to these changes so the total currency is just going to rise more from these new changes if I'm not the only one planning to do such.<br /> <br /> My guess is around 10-20 people are making up at least 50% of the total currency right now. (this is a guess, so don't hold my word for that) So, the point here is, while the economy LOOKS like it's terrible, really, that is a few people doing that. And as far as bone prices, these people with more ala cash than they know what to do with are the ones probably driving bone prices up.. I personally don't buy bones but my guess is it's one of the really rich players buying them out. I could be wrong there, too, but who knows. I would be more in favor of targeting these players spending their massive amounts of money as opposed to trying to cut their money down and in turn hurt players who don't have money.

09-17-2012 at 6:05 AM

<b>"Well that couple of hundred thousand people made a week"</b><br /> More like a couple hundred thousand a day :/<br /> <br /> Reducing the amount of money coming in from trialing is different than totally cutting off trialing, which would be just like if we were to cut off interest.<br /> <br /> <b>EDIT:</b> I trialed a couple dogs a few times this morning and made $55,000. I don't see anything bad with the change; I'm not even trialing capped dogs, my dogs I'm trialing are around 5000TP or so. It's not impossible to make money trialing, you just have to play Alacrity like it was intended to be played: Train dogs, breed dogs with higher-TP dogs, train puppies, breed dogs with higher-TP dogs, train puppies, breed dogs with higher-TP dogs, etc.<br /> It's common sense that higher TP = more money, it's absolutely ridiculous to think that you can make a killing trialing custom dogs and can have them hold their own with the "big dogs".<br /> What has really happened is that trialing has been cut a bit, frisbee has been jacked up, but still below what would be made before. People are acting as if the trialing has been cut and that's it. :S<br /> <br /> <b>Moral of the story:</b> Want to make money? Breed and train higher-TP dogs.

09-17-2012 at 5:16 AM

Well that couple of hundred thousand people made a week for trialling high TP dogs was a reward yet we still seem to getting <i>punished</i> for that by having it lowered and constant limits added to trials.<br /> <br /> I'd say it's only fair really. If you're trying to fix the economy by lowering trial payouts then you should be looking at everything else that generates money on this site including the bank.<br /> <br /> Just seems pointless to me to lower trial payouts yet encourage users to hoard their money and make a fortune from bank interest which in it's own time will just further ruin the economy. I've never been a fan of any interest system really just seems to ruin any site that has one implemented.

09-17-2012 at 3:47 AM

I would not be in favor of punishing those with lots of money through bank limits. I made my money through trialing and saving. I rarely buy anything or any dogs. I train and trial, that's it. <br /> <br /> EDIT: Bank interest is a reward for saving money, that's the purpose of it. Why would we want to punish users for doing something that they should do in the first place?

09-17-2012 at 2:00 AM

Personally I would be in favor of implementing other economy controls other than attacking trialing (which makes it harder for new players to get into the game, and frankly new players are the life blood of any web game). Right now implementing what seems to be several "solutions" seems more like a shotgun blast seems like it's just going to cause more upset than help. Frankly I've been seeing more than a few people selling off their things and leaving before Ala gets too bad to rescue (and I really don't want to see that happen either)<br /> <br /> I would say that since it seems to be a large portion of the active money is likely coming from a select few rich persons on Ala (I actually fit there too, I'ma money hoarder since it's the most reliable way to make money now) that perhaps a bank limit should be implemented? For example, if you have 500mil in the bank, you now earn 10mil a week for doing absolutely nothing. Now say at least a few people take this method, well there is going to be a lot of cash floating around. And money hoarders see news like this and guess what? Gather up MORE, making the economy look worse than before. Personally I hardly trial, it's too much of a hassle and I know at the end of the week I'm going to get payout from the bank. <br /> <br /> Average players on Ala don't have that cash pool to draw the big interest and sustain themselves, so they rely on trialing which is often difficult and seemingly getting harder. Personally I really only used capped dogs anymore, and don't worry about it when I do show, but again not everyone has that kinda resource. <br /> <br /> It just seems to me the largest goal of this game keeps getting "attacked" for lack of better way to say how this keeps coming off to me, while other things which are equally treating to a failing economy are completely ignored. (I didn't list any solutions since I've stated them numerous time in past debates, and this topic is for trailing)

09-17-2012 at 1:38 AM

Well... <br /> "When users are making less money at a regular pace and the almost two billion dollar active money on site has dissipated to a reasonable amount in relation to the number of active users"<br /> <br /> You have to keep in mind some users, a very few, are making up a HUGE portion of this active currency, and they certainly aren't hurting from these changes in the least. I am one of them; I simply am choosing to just not trial, it's not worth my time anymore and I just won't do it *shrugs* I had a hard time remembering to trial as it was. In fact now I will end up hoarding my money more when previously I was spending a lot of it on rather useless things that I was just doing for fun (such as insta pupping tons of litters I am making no money off).<br /> <br /> There are few users "making a killing" on here and having tons and tons of money.<br /> <br /> I am completely in favor of the lower trial payouts if the cost to enter also goes down. As I have suggested before, a flat entry fee for each different level, or one overall, would be nice. It would need to be a decently low cost, though, so people will enter just to enter for TP increases rather than for sure winning.

09-17-2012 at 12:48 AM

after running trials and seeing the Frisbee change it's really not to bad...<br /> <br /> but i would LOVE to see some new game especially some flash games(is really hopeful we can get some) and i'm excited about the point shop <br /> <br /> <br /> but i still don't think the age degrease without compensation is fair

09-16-2012 at 10:34 PM

Well... all I can say is that I'm so glad I have 12 mil saved up my bank. I shall be making a nice income off on interest until the economy is fixed.