Albinism
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Discuss albinism in general.
I'd like to start it off by discussing albinism in dogs. I'll just copy-paste a comment on albino dogs I noticed, and the response I was typing up.
Carnivale:
"It is a misconception that "true" albino eyes are pink. Albino eyes can, as Geist said, be anywhere from pink, to pale blue, to almost white. In albinistic dogs, pink eyes are even less common, for whatever reason."
Me:
"I'm forced to challenge that idea.
Albinism is the lack of pigmentation (or melanin) - therefore, the blood beneath the skin and behind the eyes are what gives the skin and eyes a pink color. No true albino has non-pink eyes; they simply don't. If they do, then they aren't a "true albino." If so, then they're just a "white" color - like horses, where a horse is considered grey if it has dark skin and white or grey fur, while a "true white" has pink skin and white fur - which is similar, but yes, different. Or perhaps leucistic...
Now, maybe there is such a thing as another genetic strain that is more dominant that albinism to cause an animals' eyes to be blue instead of pink, while still remain an albino. However, based off "albinos MUST have pink eyes," unless Alacrity decides to add the dominant mutations in, in no way do I find this to be a suitable excuse.
Now, yes, I am most familiar with researching "albino horses" - of which there is no such thing of, I might add, according to my research. However, from the short, small bit of research I've currently conducted... I have concluded that there is also no such thing as a "true albino" dog. Therefore, while it may be similar to an albino, or... even, admittedly, semi-albino as I've heard it put, there is no actual albino dog.
There truly MUST be an accepted term for a creature that exhibits solely pink skin, white fur, and pink eyes - NO other color. I've come across many definitions of albinism, some of which state that it CAN have the said three traits, others saying that it MUST have those traits. This is the issue with it - there is no one 100% accepted definition, it varies too much.
While I realize that not everything on the internet is true, here's one bit I found (NOT in Wiki, I'm proud of myself! xD):
-"True albino, which is a recessive gene on the C locus, is not thought to occur in dogs. Sometimes dogs do occur which are completely white with pink noses and blue eyes, but these are probably semi-albinos. Genetic testing has not shown them to have any mutations on the C locus though, so it's possible that their lack of pigment is actually caused by something other than albino.
"White" Dobermanns are not true albinos (they still have some pigment, it's just very diluted), but geneticists are unsure which gene causes both their phaeomelanin and eumelanin to lighten so much. All we know is that the white Dobermann gene is recessive, which makes it similar to true albino."-
Copypasta from here:
http://abnormality.purpleflowers.net/genetics/albino.htm
I've come to accept that the "true albino" term is used for an animal that exhibit all three traits. But, simply my opinion. I still feel my opinion to be correct, though... Reasonably so, I hope. xD *shrug*
Opinions, arguments, thoughts..?
I'd like to start it off by discussing albinism in dogs. I'll just copy-paste a comment on albino dogs I noticed, and the response I was typing up.
Carnivale:
"It is a misconception that "true" albino eyes are pink. Albino eyes can, as Geist said, be anywhere from pink, to pale blue, to almost white. In albinistic dogs, pink eyes are even less common, for whatever reason."
Me:
"I'm forced to challenge that idea.
Albinism is the lack of pigmentation (or melanin) - therefore, the blood beneath the skin and behind the eyes are what gives the skin and eyes a pink color. No true albino has non-pink eyes; they simply don't. If they do, then they aren't a "true albino." If so, then they're just a "white" color - like horses, where a horse is considered grey if it has dark skin and white or grey fur, while a "true white" has pink skin and white fur - which is similar, but yes, different. Or perhaps leucistic...
Now, maybe there is such a thing as another genetic strain that is more dominant that albinism to cause an animals' eyes to be blue instead of pink, while still remain an albino. However, based off "albinos MUST have pink eyes," unless Alacrity decides to add the dominant mutations in, in no way do I find this to be a suitable excuse.
Now, yes, I am most familiar with researching "albino horses" - of which there is no such thing of, I might add, according to my research. However, from the short, small bit of research I've currently conducted... I have concluded that there is also no such thing as a "true albino" dog. Therefore, while it may be similar to an albino, or... even, admittedly, semi-albino as I've heard it put, there is no actual albino dog.
There truly MUST be an accepted term for a creature that exhibits solely pink skin, white fur, and pink eyes - NO other color. I've come across many definitions of albinism, some of which state that it CAN have the said three traits, others saying that it MUST have those traits. This is the issue with it - there is no one 100% accepted definition, it varies too much.
While I realize that not everything on the internet is true, here's one bit I found (NOT in Wiki, I'm proud of myself! xD):
-"True albino, which is a recessive gene on the C locus, is not thought to occur in dogs. Sometimes dogs do occur which are completely white with pink noses and blue eyes, but these are probably semi-albinos. Genetic testing has not shown them to have any mutations on the C locus though, so it's possible that their lack of pigment is actually caused by something other than albino.
"White" Dobermanns are not true albinos (they still have some pigment, it's just very diluted), but geneticists are unsure which gene causes both their phaeomelanin and eumelanin to lighten so much. All we know is that the white Dobermann gene is recessive, which makes it similar to true albino."-
Copypasta from here:
http://abnormality.purpleflowers.net/genetics/albino.htm
I've come to accept that the "true albino" term is used for an animal that exhibit all three traits. But, simply my opinion. I still feel my opinion to be correct, though... Reasonably so, I hope. xD *shrug*
Opinions, arguments, thoughts..?
KaT (#5747)
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09-3-2011 at 10:20 AM
I can't argue with some of what you guys say x] (not super familiar with genes etc) but I can argue my point.<br /> <br /> I agree with the original poster, Carni, you never debated the main thing correctly, albinism is a <i>complete</i> lack of pigmentation, so how could they have blue and brown like in some of your pictures ? Only a few I saw there were <i>true</i> in my eye.
GeistNoir (#4246)
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09-2-2011 at 11:33 PM
"No true albino has non-pink eyes; they simply don't. If they do, then they aren't a "true albino.""<br /> "I have concluded that there is also no such thing as a "true albino" dog."<br /> <br /> After research, I can find no case of a fully tyrosinase-negative dog. However, the merle gene and some others can cause absolute lack of pigment in a dog's eyes, <i>resulting in white eyes.</i> They have occular albinism by its definition of "no pigment."<br /> <br /> Our eyes and dogs eyes are colored by eumelanin, and eumelanin makes colors like black, yellow, and brown. Blue eyes are eyes with very little of this pigmenting, they have pigment on the back of the iris but none on the front, and that combination interacts with light to give them that vivid blue color. Many eyes with no pigment appear extremely pale blue due to light interaction, or white. OCA1A albinos can produce <i>absolutely no pigment at all</i> and their eyes look <i>white,</i> purplish, or a marbled white-pink, until you shine a light in them or take a flash photograph of their eyes, then they look pink or red. <a href="http://www.ojrd.com/content/figures/1750-1172-2-43-2-l.jpg">This person is an OCA1A albino,</a> and it's a flash photo. You can see the white-blue of the iris itself, and the light hitting the blood vessels inside of his or her eye. <a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FOUnA3YBgxQ/R_Yafp60PFI/AAAAAAAAB74/XsHonsv8Klw/s400/albino_alligator.jpg">Albino alligators</a> can have white eyes, as well. OCA2 is actually the most common form of albinism among humans.<br /> <br /> OCA1 is caused by problems with the tyrosinase gene. OCA1 is generally what people think of when you say "albino," but people with OCA1B can still tan. OCA2 is caused by a mutated P gene. It's a completely different form, but they can't tan like someone with OCA1A. OCA3 is a mutation of Tyrp1, and OCA4 is a mutation of MATP. They are all albinos, and I really don't dig the term "true albino."
Carnivale (#6)
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09-2-2011 at 4:16 PM
Thanks for correcting me, Ehm. XD I had always learned that leucism and albinism were related due to the shared effect of reduced melanin, but I'm always glad to learn different if what I thought I knew turns out to be incorrect.<br /> <br /> If nothing else, though, it still stands that you're normally not going to find a creature with albinism with truly pink eyes, but that the effect is mainly centered in the pupil area, while the iris retains a blue or grey tone on top of the showing blood vessels, which was the point I was trying to make.
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2011-09-02 13:28:33 by #6
Ehm (#93)
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09-2-2011 at 3:57 PM
Piebald and similar are a form of leucism. Leucism is not a form of albinism. Sorry, it's just not; if you wanted to say they were connected at all, you could claim that albinism is a form of leucism -- but again, it simply isn't. They are two separate conditions.<br /> <br /> Albinism is a lack of melanin. When it occurs, it's because <i>all</i> the melanin cells just <i>aren't there</i>. The enzyme to produce them is not present, or otherwise is not functioning.<br /> <br /> Leucism involves any/almost all pigment cells -- not just melanin. The cells are also not totally absent. They may not develop, or they may develop but abnormally. That's also why there's a massive variety of ways in which leucism can appear/show up.<br /> <br /> The reason albino reptiles often have pale yellow markings is because it's only the melanin that's affected with albinism, and those markings are created by another type of pigment cell. If the same creature had leucism, they could have white patches, have faded colours, or be entirely white.<br /> <br /> The only cells that leucism almost never effects are some of the cells that give the iris its colour. Most of those pigment cells are produced in a different area than the rest of the the body's pigmentation cells. That's why you'll virtually never see a leucistic animal with red eyes.<br /> In albinism, it doesn't matter where the cells are being produced from, because it's caused by a problem with the enzyme that produces it.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Blah blah blah most "albinos" you see that are only "partial albino" or have distinctly blue eyes actually have leucism. The two terms get confused and mixed up a lot because "albino" is a more widely known term.
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2011-09-02 12:57:55 by #93
Carnivale (#6)
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09-2-2011 at 2:06 PM
While this is a debate I'm personally a bit tired of (no offense to the original poster, this is just a debate that's gone on for a long time here and there ever since albino eyes were added to Alacrity), here are just a few examples of alibino people and animals. Very often you see these traces of blue or grey in the iris, and then you see the blood vessels behind them, or the flash of a photograph or whatever source of light is reflecting in the pupil, casting another pinkish hue.<br /> <br /> However, you are going to find it very difficult to find any creature with a visible iris that's pink. When you see albino rats and rabbits and such with pink eyes, you're typically actually seeing mostly their pupil and not their iris.<br /> <br /> There are many forms of albinism, and -all- are "true" albino. Leucism is a form of albinism. Piebald is a form of albinism. And so on.There's also Ocular Albinism, which is albinism of only the eyes, while the rest of the animal or human has normal melanin. In these examples, the eyes are almost always more of a blue hue. When you see the red/pink of the eye, if you just observe many different subjects, you'll find that most of what you're seeing is a reflectant pupil. While pink eyes are not impossible, they are not the norm for albinism.<br /> <br /> In the end, pink eyed albinos are mostly a stereotype/misconception, and often a misunderstanding of what the person is looking at by confusing the pupil for the iris.<br /> <br /> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_-noP7lfKU&feature=related<br /> <br /> http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/images3/albino_eye.jpg<br /> <br /> http://cozay.com/documents/Albino-African-Lady.jpg<br /> <br /> http://eyemakeart.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/fig-2b.jpg?w=300&h=234<br /> <br /> http://dermatology.cdlib.org/1411/case_presentations/oca/1.jpg<br /> <br /> http://www.ssc.education.ed.ac.uk/courses/pictures/vnov07ii3.jpg<br /> <br /> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1396/822519191_db3b7e0059_b.jpg<br /> <br /> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4q4V2LbzD0&feature=related
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2011-09-02 11:13:31 by #6
2011-09-02 11:11:30 by #6
Celestial's Dakonic Shepherds (#3992)
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09-2-2011 at 11:12 AM
I may have read your post wrong, but I agree with Quagga and my research found the same thing. Ablinism = lack of pigment so how could blue eyes be albino eyes? The dog can be partially albino, skin, hair, etc but have non albino eyes. (Or they could've been leucistic which is reduced pigmentation)<br /> <br /> <br /> I've seen a lot of animals called albino who have blue eyes, green eyes, etc. That doesn't make them albino because someone claimed they were.<br /> <br /> <br /> Here are some examples.<br /> Here's a Leucistic American Alligator.<br /> <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e1/Blanco-leucistic-alligator-Houston-Zoo.jpg">Picture</a><br /> And here's a albino American Alligator<br /> <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Albino_Alligator_2008.jpg">Picture</a><br />
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2011-09-02 08:14:47 by #3992
Alcemistnv [567 candy corns] (#3906)
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09-2-2011 at 11:05 AM
I have to agree with Carni though...<br /> <br /> I've seen images of albinos with varying colors, but all were pale and not so bright. Athough the red is an exception to this, isn't it possible for any eye color to become really light?<br /> <br /> I don't know much about albinos, but I have seen albinos with blue eyes before.