09-6-2011 at 6:56 AM

I'm kind of impartial on this subject. However, if someone were to take one of my custom designs, I would prefer that they ask.. or at least let me know. It's not like it can be prevented, but it's only courteous. And manners are a huge deal in my book.

09-6-2011 at 5:53 AM

I have seen an argument between flattery and anger at the person/user who copied that same design, and I think that it depends upon the person's viewpoint or how they handle the situation. Will the creator of the custom think of it badly(stolen design) or nicely(flattered because they liked it)?<br /> <br /> And yes, I think it's just a design. Nothing wrong with it or anyone copying Kasha's or Melbourne's designs, and yes, <b>in my own personal opinion</b> this is stealing, but <b>for the whole society in general, is this right or wrong?</b> I think this question is a vital one.

08-31-2011 at 10:12 AM

I wasn't taking about the copyright part of that. Wysper also said you can not own a recipe that others can not use, where as yes- you can, it's just a matter of keeping it secret. (like having the option of hiding marking order/percentage or something like that)<br /> <br /> I should have specified that, sorry :)

08-31-2011 at 3:48 AM

Uh... anyone can make any design they like, and the whole "copying" problem eludes me. Why worry about it, as long as you have the dog you want? Are we supposed to try and find out who else might or might not have a specific design?

08-30-2011 at 10:44 PM

Mahou, that recipe is kept under lock and key because you can not copyright a recipe. People who know the recipe sign a contract that if they ever tell ANYONE they can be sued etc because of that.

08-29-2011 at 10:14 PM

That's not entirely true, Wysper. What about the secret recipe most major fast food chains own? Such as KFC. They have a secret ingredient for their chicken, so secret that the original recipe is kept under lock and key using a computer with all sorts of checks and such. Sure, you can find out perhaps what goes into it, but you don't know how much of it. So that'd be like being able to see the marking on dogs, but not the percentages.<br /> <br /> I still feel like it's wrong, but it's not a matter of moderation. It's simply a matter of conscious.

08-28-2011 at 4:52 PM

I wouldn't really care if someone decided to use my idea for clothing. It's just <i>clothes</i>. I'd probably be a little flattered.<br /> <br /> And I don't like the idea of secret recipes, either. I think wonderful foods should be shared with the world, not secreted away to be shared with only a select few people.<br /> <br /> I <i>don't</i> like people ripping on character designs, if that's any consolation. Characters that are your intellectual property and took real imagination, care, and time to create. <br /> <br /> But you can go overboard with that, too. If you have a blue wolf character, you can't go around raging on every single other person with a blue wolf as an OC.<br /> <br /> Ala dogs <i>absolutely do not</i> fall into this, however. And before someone says it, if you base your OC on an Ala dog, you can't do anything if someone makes a custom or breeds a dog just like it. You're basing your OC design on markings available to everyone who is registered to Alacrity.<br /> <br /> And that's enough of my complete and utter tangent.

08-28-2011 at 3:50 PM

Okay so if your grandmother made these amazing pies and had her 'secret family recipe' would you really like for everyone to take it and claim it as their own?<br /> But you'd be more then happy to work with them to create their own version of the pie, or let them eat it right?<br /> <br /> Same with a custom. They are special, sure we love to share them and sell their puppies and let people use glitch percentages and the like, but taking isn't appreciated.<br /> <br />

08-28-2011 at 3:42 PM

I have to say that this is kind of like recipes.<br /> <br /> You can NOT copyright or own a recipe that no one else is allowed to use. <br /> <br /> It boils down to the same thing, really. *shrugs*<br /> <br />

08-28-2011 at 12:13 PM

Yeah.. Even though the design is the property of Ala and could be made by anyone, if I'm the first user to put the markings in that order with those opacities, I feel as if I created that particular design. I understand I can't do anything to stop anyone from copying "my" design, but I would be very sad if they did. I took the time to create the design the way I wanted it to look, and someone comes along, likes it, and just takes it? It's not really a friendly thing to do. <br /> <br /> It's like if I used a store-bought pattern and fabric to sew a beautiful dress in real life. As I'm showing it off to someone, someone else comes along, says "Hey, that's nice!" and takes it. I put all the work into it using someone else's pattern and materials to make something unique for me (after all, the pattern and fabric can be used by anyone, but I chose to use that particular fabric with that particular pattern because I hadn't seen it done before), but it was still <i>mine</i>, and the other person liked it and took it without doing any of the necessary work to deserve it. That might be a bad example, but do you see what I'm saying?

08-28-2011 at 12:04 PM

Because it's not nice? People do get attached to their dogs, especially a custom dog. And then they find out someone copied it? Thats not the nicest feeling =/<br /> <br /> I don't think people should get in trouble for coping a dog, but i do think that it should be shunned. Because stealing just isn't nice.

08-27-2011 at 1:22 AM

My moral point of view on it is due to the legality. I very frequently disagree with a lot of laws, but as far as art and design goes, these days, it matched up pretty well with my own views.<br /> <br /> Simply, Robyn owns Alacrity's art, so there's no quibbling over that. And as far as an "original design"? There's really no such thing because every component of the design is fully open to be used by someone else. It takes no genuine imagination. It's just these markings, open to every player on the site, stacked in certain ways and set to certain opacities. To try and lay claim on that strikes me as bizarre. <br /> <br /> That's why I never participate in these "pay me to design a custom" threads. And if you were to ask me to, you'd better bet I might use that design later if I want to. Just because I throw some markings everyone can use down on a template, absolutely does not mean I'm saying "I totally won't use this later because this is absolutely original © you."<br /> <br /> Also, Nals: You can't copywrite Ala designs. You can't copywrite any character design, ever. You trademark them, and that costs a lot of money. That isn't the point I'm trying to make in this message, either, before someone focuses on it.

08-27-2011 at 12:48 AM

You designed a dog, then sell the pattern. Someone buys it. The design is theirs and no one will ever have to take it away from them again, unless that someone sells it again, which the copyright can be passed down, because alongside the ownership of the design is the copyright that the design is theirs. :3 There may be the problem of the art being owned by ADprogramming, LLC, but the <i>design itself</i> is what I want to make a point on. Not the art(the drawing itself). But I think this art should stay here on Ala, although there may be 'reneditions' of the design, such as drawings and other art on other sites, but the design stays with the owner unless sold all over again. :3

08-26-2011 at 5:24 PM

I feel it is more of a respect thing than anything that is covered in a rule/law/copyright/whatever. If i created a custom dog, then sold the dog. The design in theirs. Just like an uncreated design. You don't see these design shops selling the design then turning around and creating it them selves do you? Thats basically what a custom dog is, but it's tangible.<br /> You buy a custom dog for the looks, not the linage, or tp. If i bought a custom dog i'd expect it to be unique and the old owner to respect that. If there were 5 of the exact same customs for sale, i wouldn't buy one, that defeats the point of a 'custom' dog. If it isn't special i don't want to spend 15 dollars on it, plain and simple.<br /> <br /> Bred dogs and pup predicts i would say are free for anyone to recreate as a customs.<br />

08-26-2011 at 10:05 AM

Well, now that we addressed the legal standing of the situation, let's move onto ethical considerations. <br /> <br /> While we all now understand that Robyn owns these dogs and their designs (by proxy, as owner of adprogramming, LLC.), is it "right" or ethical for a player to sell a dog or a design and then recreate that dog/design without it being expressed at the time of sale that this would not, or may not, be a unique copy?<br /> <br /> I feel like I already weighed in on this question, but I wanted to direct the conversation out of the dead end it seems to be heading xD

08-26-2011 at 10:02 AM

I agree with Nyctra, noone owns the design of a dog, the art is owned by ADprogramming,LLC <br /> <br /> If someone loved my Customs so much they wanted to spend bones to make one then so be it. More money spent on Ala!

08-26-2011 at 4:34 AM

I agree that all dogs on this site belong to ADprogramming, llc.<br /> <br /> Including all dogs made with all the preset markings that the site offers to be used.<br /> <br /> So basically, no. You do not "own" the right to the dog's design, no more than anyone "owns" their profile or "owns" their items. Yes, you can be in possession of them, but let me quote the TOS:<br /> <br /> "<i>All content, graphics, and coding are property of Alacrity.</i>"<br /> <br /> Meaning that dogs, accounts, items, etc all belong to Alacrity. Whether you like it or not.

08-26-2011 at 3:48 AM

Important line I included in my post.<br /> "And I imagine, even by people making customs!"<br /> <br /> And I wouldn't care. Because of the <i>main</i> message of my post. All dogs have limited markings in limited colors and the dogs are property of ADprogramming LLC, not a single user.<br /> <br /> However, if I made a CA that I was selling on site for real money, and someone used the art I'd drawn for it to make an identical CA?<br /> <br /> Heck yeah I'd be angry and I'd do something about it. But that's because the art of the CA would be my intellectual property, I would be making real profit from it, and I would actually be able to hit them with a DCMA Cease and Desist letter. This is.. not even the same.

08-26-2011 at 3:31 AM

The problem with that example, Geist, is that those dogs were bred or created without <i>knowing</i> the first one existed. When you knowingly take something and copy it <b>exactly</b>, then that's where it's wrong imo. Now yeah, it'd be hard for mods to moderate that, and in Ala's case I'd say it comes down to a matter of conscious.

08-26-2011 at 2:55 AM

I really have to agree with Kael, Carni, and Nyctra.<br /> <br /> I've been working in art for a long time. Professional artists redistribute their art quite a lot. A number of them put a clause in their commission contracts stating that they have the right to sell prints of their commission art, even if it involves your characters. If you commission a generic piece without a distinct character, there's a good chance it'll wind up as a print. If you commission tattoo flash, there's a pretty decent chance it'll wind up as flash for someone else. Heck, post a picture of your tattoo online? It'll probably wind up copied on someone else, and you can't do a thing about it.<br /> <br /> It's because you can't copyright these things. You. Cannot. When it comes to a character, you have to trademark it, which costs a lot of money, and that character had better be pretty danged distinct. Mickey Mouse is a trademarked character. And you know what? If you make the same basic design and change a few little things, you can get away with 'copying' because you aren't violating the trademark. These are <a href="http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs8/i/2005/339/b/9/Bootleg_Mickey_Mouse_by_HeLGeN_X.jpg">bootlegs.</a><br /> <br /> Things get really funny when it's applied to Alacrity. Every dog on this site is property of ADprogramming LLC. Everything every artist is commissioned to draw for this site, Carni and myself included, belongs to ADprogramming LLC. I can't just decide to leave and storm up to Robyn and say "I WANT MY OWLS BACK." I can't go into a rage and tell her to stop it if she decides to have someone alter those owls, or make another color variant.<br /> <br /> Then you take into consideration that all these dogs have a set number of specific markings that come in specific colors. You can make all sorts of lovely variations, but sooner or later, someone is probably going to come along with identical dogs.<br /> <br /> Most of my customs have 'clones' out there - a lot of them from my own breeding, and a lot of them simply by chance through other people breeding.. And I imagine, even by people making customs!<br /> <br /> So for one user to come along, <i>claim that a design is theirs</i>, then get angry when someone else has a near identical dog? And the dog itself intellectually belongs to neither of them?<br /> <br /> It doesn't work like that.