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Raw Pet Food/BARF Diets

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Would like to hear people's opinions on raw diets- both commercially prepared and homemade prey model- for dogs and cats. :) I know it's a very controversial subject, so I'd like to hear some standings on it. Me personally, I feed my cat an all-raw prey model (80% muscle meat, 10% bone, 10% organ (5% from liver) diet, entirely homemade and 100% meat. He has been on a raw diet since July, and in the three years I've had him, I've never seen him healthier. His coat gleams and sparkles, he barely sheds any hair at all, he's full of energy, and his teeth are pearly white and his bad breath is gone. He has food allergies (to soy and vitamin E, incidentally- soy being the main protein used in most hypoallergenic veterinary diets) and after he continued to have reaction after reaction to even some of the highest quality pet foods on the market, I looked into other options. I did a lot of research before switching over to an all-raw diet, and I'm certainly not just throwing my cat cuts of meat without having done adequate research and taken the time to make sure his diet is balanced. Now, here's the kicker. I'm a certified veterinary assistant, and studied pet nutrition extensively in college. I know that a lot of the myths about commercial pet food and some of the ingredients that pet foods use (i.e, corn, byproducts etc) are completely bogus and most of the "problem" ingredients are perfectly fine and can be beneficial if processed properly and used in the correct amounts. Lets take by-products as an example. What comes to mind? Hooves? Hair? Beaks? I don't know about the US, but in Canada, it is illegal for hair, horns, feathers, beaks, hooves, viscera, and intestinal contents to be used in pet food. The definition of a by-product is simply "something produced incidentally to the production of something else". Vitamin E? A by-product of soybeans. Gelatin is an animal by-product. Usually "by-products" on a pet food label refers to blood, bone, fat, or internal organs. I have no problem with commercial pet food brands, as a whole (mind you I would never feed or recommend a brand that had harsh chemical preservatives, or artificial additives). I recommend veterinary diets to any clients coming into the clinic. I still think feeding a high quality commercial brand is important, compared to a cheap grocery brand, mainly because the quality of the ingredients is higher, they usually contain more biologically available nutrients, and less starches (which are good in moderation but should not make up the majority of the food) and also- this might interest some of you- higher quality foods are cheaper. Yes, believe it or not, you're actually paying less for a bag of Orijen than you would a bag of Kibbles and Bits- because in the long run, the bag of Orijen will last much longer, due to having highly digestible ingredients that the dog actually processes, so you don't have to feed even a quarter of as much. However, given the choice, I will always feed my own animals raw. I would never recommend a raw diet to just anyone. It takes a lot of work and research to make sure that it's done properly, and if someone doesn't put in the effort to do that, things can go terribly wrong. But if someone does know what they're doing, I honestly believe it is the most biologically appropriate, healthiest, most wholesome and natural diet possible. I've seen the difference in my cat. I've seen the difference in other people's animals. I can always spot a raw-fed dog or cat by their coat quality, their clean teeth, and how energetic and full of life they are. Likewise, I can always spot a dog that gets fed the cheapest, lowest quality crud that they buy at the grocery store. Their coat is itchy and either dry or greasy, their breath and teeth are terrible, their stools are huge, and they seem more lethargic. So, I'd like to hear some views on this. :) Also I might be able to catch some pictures of my cat chowing down on a raw meaty bone if anyone would like to see. ^^

02-8-2011 at 9:16 PM

I fed my last dog (a Saint Bernard with crazy allergies) a raw/BARF diet. He would get mostly whole prey items, like rabbits, chickens, etc, and a few prepared meals. About once a month during the summer, he would get a whole raw deer tripe - outside because its smelly! LOL My current dog, a mini doxie, is eating Blue Buffalo Wilderness (because I work at PetSmart and discounts are for the win). Am thinking about going raw with him as well. I really like the whole prey item way of feeding, mixed with prepared meals. Will need to partner with my raw feeding vet to find an appropriate mix and prey item for him. Thinking quail and rats XD

02-8-2011 at 9:46 AM

It's not good to add anything to dry food that moistens it/causes it to expand, because it's a haven for bacteria.. But feeding canned and dry close together isn't necessarily bad for them. ^^ Raw is different though because it digests very quickly and is very easy for the system to process, compared to kibble that is a lot of work for the system to process. As for the tartar on their teeth- aside from brushing or raw bones, there isn't much that'll strip the tartar off the teeth once it's rooted there aside from a dental prophy, and if the teeth are really bad brushing won't do a lot.. My cat had some mild tartar and halitosis (bad breath) before starting raw, and the raw bones and even just the muscle meat has completely eliminated his dental problems- his teeth are sparkly white and he has no bad breath at all- not even if you stick your nose right by his open mouth and take a whiff- which is more than can be said for most people I'm sure. LOL Try feeding them raw meaty bones 2-3 times a week (at least 12 hours before or after a kibble meal, canned is fine) and see if you see any improvement after a while :) Chicken necks, breastbones and backs are super cheap (around 85 cents will get me a huge package!) and they last for a long time. ^^

02-8-2011 at 8:40 AM

Canned food is not raw food. ;) It depends on the brand, a proper raw diet is most likely best, but there are some good dog/cat food brands out there. Every pet store brand I have seen is bad though. I feed Taste of the Wild, which Petco and Petsmart do not supply.

02-8-2011 at 8:28 AM

We feed my cats canned and kibble at the same time, is that bad? Or is it just raw food and kibble? I'd love for them to have a raw diet, but we can't afford it sadly. :\ They're pretty healthy, the only thing I worry about is the tarter and disgusting breath. We've been giving them treats that are supposed to help but have not been doing much.

01-26-2011 at 11:40 AM

We used to BARF the cats 50%, but thanks to one of the cats needing a high fiber diet we are now down to 10 - 20% :/ They were generally a lot better on raw food, well, save the one with the megacolon.

01-24-2011 at 8:30 AM

ohh my :) well thats fantastic!! now to turn my dad onto feeding them raw instead...

01-24-2011 at 7:49 AM

Clayton: Your cat would need to eat bone somehow, because that's how they get their calcium. You can smash them up for him (my cats handle chewing them) or you can get them ground. They sell ground bone on the Hare-Today site, I believe. :) I love the book Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats by Kymythy R. Schultze. I recommend it to everyone interested in a raw diet for their pets.

01-24-2011 at 5:14 AM

But he wouldn't be able to chew bones.. so would I just have to stick to like.. the meat for him? I mean I could scrape it off the bone for him or somethin

01-23-2011 at 9:51 AM

Absolutely ^__^ I know cats that only have four teeth that can eat a raw diet. :)

01-23-2011 at 6:16 AM

hhmmm..... this interests me lots. think my cat who got dental surgery would be okay?

01-23-2011 at 3:43 AM

As far as bones go, the problem with bones is that cooked bones splinter and can cause obstructions. But raw bones are not only surprisingly easy to chew and do not splinter, but they are actually digested and broken down in the gut. :) They also provide a fantastic dental workout so dental chews/cat toothbrushes and toothpaste/expensive dental prophies under anesthetic etc become unnecessary. One of the biggest changes I've noticed in my cat is that he has no odor to his breath- at all. There's nothing. In the couple months he's been eating raw, his teeth have gone from being covered in tartar and having a nasty brown color near his gums, to being spotlessly pearly white- even his molars! Raw bones are nature's toothbrush :) Also, since they require the cat or dog to chew, they slow down gulping of food which actually lowers the risk of choking. ;)

01-22-2011 at 6:06 PM

I think raw is great for dogs and cats if dont properly which sounds like you did you research. I just personally dont have the meat storage space or the time to feed raw. I do have a cat with dietary restrictions, i dont know exactly what all he had trouble with but when i put them on a corn, soy, wheat free diet when he was little the problems went away, then when i returned from 2 years in the Peace Corps he was starting to stink again so i switched to 100% grain and by-product free and now feed Blue's Wilderness diet. its like $38 for a big bag but that lasts me for a few months as i only feed 1/2cup for 2 cats split into 2 meals a day. I would feed a bit more but the one with dietary needs is over weight (15lbs) but i need to start feeding my other kitty a bit more as she is now down to just over 10lbs and doesn't need to loose much more.

01-22-2011 at 5:38 PM

I'm a bit nervous about giving my cats meat with bones in it [at thanksgiving, i always take the meat off of the bones when i give the neck to them lol].. is that an issue with raw bones? idk how I'd feel giving small chicken neck bones to my cat. Also, one of my cat has his molars removed from dental surgery so he's on canned food... yet he still eats hard food [the vet said he could, wtf??], I don't know how hard it would be for him to chew up raw meat

01-22-2011 at 9:15 AM

My cat took right to raw meat, but I did introduce it slowly to him- first, I got him strictly on canned food (partially because it can be dangerous to feed kibble and raw within 12 hours of each other because they digest at such different speeds) and then it also makes it easier to start adding raw into the canned :) Here's how I switched my cat over- times for each stage can be adjusted depending on how quickly your cat takes to it. And instead of premade, you can grind your own meat- but never, ever feed ground raw meat from the superstore, it's a haven for bacteria and is just generally not good for them! Also mixing really finely chopped chunks instead of premade can work too. First: I got him on 100% canned food for about a week. Second: I got some premade raw (which is usually ground and with either bone dust or small chunks of bone- this one had small chunks of bone) and mixed about half of it in with the canned food. You can change the amount of raw to mix in with the canned depending on how your cat does with it. Gradually increase this amount until your cat is eating straight premade. After he had been eating straight premade for a little while and had gotten used to the taste of raw meat, I started mixing larger chunks of raw in with the premade. I gradually increased the size of the chunks until he was eating whole chicken hearts and chunks of meat about that size mixed into his premade. :) The more chunks he would eat, the less premade I gave him, until he was having no trouble eating stew-meat sized chunks. At that point, I started introducing some bone. Since the premade I'd been giving him already had bone hunks in it (and finding a coarse grind premade is what I would recommend) the bones weren't an entirely new experience for him, but I started slow. Buying a package of chicken necks or wings is a good place to start, and cut them up into bite size chunks and mix a chunk or two into the chunks of regular meat that your cat is eating. Gradually increase the size of the chunks of raw meaty bone that you give until your cat can handle a whole chicken neck or breastbone on their own :) I use necks, breastbones, and backs, cut into moderate sized chunks, and I divide up two neck-sized bones for a week's worth of food and mix it in with the muscle meat, that way he gets the dental benefits of bone every day but I still keep it within the 80-10-10 percentage. As far as organ meats go, some cats love them (mine included) and some cats aren't so fussed. It's necessary that 5% of the diet comes from liver and 5% comes from some other secreting organ such as kidney (heart, and chicken gizzards both count as a MUSCLE meat, and not organ meat!). Kidney is probably the cheapest and easiest to find. I buy lamb kidneys at one of the nearby grocery stores and two of them is the perfect size for a meal for my boy. When following the 5% liver and 5% other organ (lets say kidney), that usually means one meal of each in a 20 day/3 week period for my boy. So what I normally do is feed kidney one week, have one week of just muscle and bone, and then the next week feed liver, and the week immediately following the liver week I feed kidney again. However, since it's supposed to make up a total of 5% each, it doesn't have to be just one meal- you can cut a meal's worth of it into little bits and feed it with muscle meat meals over the course of a week or so if your cat doesn't take well to organs. Mixing finely chopped kidney or liver in with slightly larger chunks of muscle meat is a good way of hiding it. You can also try feeding organs from different animals- chicken or lamb liver instead of beef, for instance. I haven't yet moved onto whole prey yet with my boy, I want to order some from Hare-Today but I don't have a credit card so I haven't actually managed to get a chance to order from them yet, but I know lots of people that do and highly recommend them :) I'm going to try going to the pet store and getting some feeder mice and maybe pinky rats and start Quetzal off with those. From my understanding of people who feed whole prey, it's best if you start by chopping the whole animal into pieces, even if it's small, then the cat will be more likely to recognize it as food. Whole prey is awesome, but I'd probably recommend it most for a cat who's been eating prey model for some time already and who definitely knows that raw meat = food, and is less likely to turn their nose up at something with fur. :)

01-22-2011 at 2:33 AM

Here is a site I found on myths about raw feeding, I found it very helpful! Especially in my concern about raw bones. http://rawfed.com/myths/

01-21-2011 at 11:02 PM

I support raw food diet's all the way. My family doesn't have the time or money for my cat though. We usually feed her Iam's and on Sunday we have fish and take 1/4 of the cooked Salmon (North Atlantic lol) and give her some. Cat's unlike dogs are strict carnivore's correct? I'm always a bit nerves and read the labels when I buy her food haha

01-21-2011 at 6:47 PM

Thanks for that site link! I'd like to start feeding Dakota raw, but I don't have to money for it right now. No place locally will higher me because of my age. I feed my dogs Taste of The Wild, it's the best thing I could find locally. But we do feed raw beef knuckles for his teeth, they are so white. And before we started feeding he had brown on his back molars. That is no longer the case.

01-21-2011 at 3:39 PM

The thing is - I'm not sure if that site ships to Canada but I imagine shipping frozen foods would be expensive. How hard is it to make the transition from hard & wet food to raw food for cats? I just can't see my cats leaping onto a dead guinea pig or w/e and chowing down in one try

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2011-01-21 04:39:50 by #5484

01-21-2011 at 3:33 PM

Danngg thanks for that site! Very nice :)

01-21-2011 at 1:47 PM

It's really not that expensive if you know where to buy your meat and what cuts are cheap :) I buy a lot of heart- both beef and chicken- as a main muscle meat, which is quite cheap because people don't really like to eat it but is extremely rich in taurine and super healthy :) Also there are websites like <a href=http://www.hare-today.com>Hare-Today</a> that offer online ordering of raw meat specifically for pets, and their prices are extremely reasonable. ^_^ Asian markets are also awesome, I've found some great stuff at asian markets for super cheap. I'd say I average between $15-20 a month at the absolute most for my cat.. less if I find myself some good deals. :)

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