01-25-2012 at 6:59 PM

<em><br /> We have discussed trial tiers quite thoroughly both now and in the past and have time and time again come to the conclusion that they are unfair. People who train 9,000TP dogs should make more and win more easily than people who train 300TP dogs. It's a simple case of action and reaction--if you want to make more money in trials, work on breeding/buying/training high TP dogs. I certainly don't feel that it's fair to handicap players who work harder or pay more for higher TP dogs. </em><br /> <br /> I get what your saying... <br /> <br /> But what about the new users who are just finding their feet in the game? They don't have the money to buy capped dogs and then even more for a MWB... I know I certainly don't have the cash for that, and I have been here well over a year. I usually go for dogs between 300-900 TP, because that's what I can manage. And two 300 TP'd dogs will <strong>always</strong> lose against a maxed capped dog. So what would be the point in me even blowing my money on trialing? <br /> <br /> It's not laziness, it's simply that I spend about 15-20 minutes on here daily between school and all my sports practices... and you can't do much in 20 minutes :/

01-25-2012 at 6:10 PM

<i>"People compete entirely way too much aided by the unfair advantage of trial teams, which assures them three large prizes. "</i><br><br>Trial teams are very much needed at this point in time, hence why I suggested the TP levels. Many trial teams think capped dogs aren't fair. We need to find a middleground that will make both players happy.<br><br><i>"People who train 9,000TP dogs should make more and win more easily than people who train 300TP dogs. It's a simple case of action and reaction"</i><br><br>I stated prizes should go up as the TP levels go up. This would assure that people strive to produce top quality dogs. If trial levels were introduced like this then it would make since to also put in a limit for how many dogs can be trialed.<br><br><i>"What I did enjoy was the idea of creating another kind of competitive system which valued things other than TP (speed, drive, luck, energy, etc.). I'd love to see some development put into something like this so that people could value something other than TP. "</i><br><br>I think this may be a good option.

01-25-2012 at 5:14 PM

"Nothing will change except people competing slightly less."<br /> <br /> This is the entire point of reworking the current trial system. People compete entirely way too much aided by the unfair advantage of trial teams, which assures them three large prizes. By increasing the energy spent, TP monsters which climb the ranks quickly, will be slowed down a bit. Additionally, it's at least realistic to imagine that higher level agility courses are more difficult, thereby more energy needed. I feel like this solution would need to be introduced alongside limiting the number of dogs you can enter in each trial. <br /> <br /> We have discussed trial tiers quite thoroughly both now and in the past and have time and time again come to the conclusion that they are unfair. People who train 9,000TP dogs <i>should</i> make more and win more easily than people who train 300TP dogs. It's a simple case of action and reaction--if you want to make more money in trials, work on breeding/buying/training high TP dogs. I certainly don't feel that it's fair to handicap players who work harder or pay more for higher TP dogs. <br /> <br /> What I did enjoy was the idea of creating another kind of competitive system which valued things other than TP (speed, drive, luck, energy, etc.). I'd love to see some development put into something like this so that people could value something other than TP.

01-25-2012 at 10:06 AM

I do not like the idea of raising the energy to compete. Clay already pointed out why.<br /> <br /> This also doesn't address the problem of trial teams and capped monsters. Nothing will change except people competing slightly less.<br /> <br /> Edit: Is there a reason that TP levels (say 0-300, 300-600, etc.) with a randomized winner wouldn't work? This assures dogs of the same level compete against each other, but everyone has a fair chance of winning. Prizes go up as ranges go up. This would keep people striving to reach the higher ranks.<br /> <br /> I know there may be a small problem with this when it comes to monster dogs. For this we could put a very large and temporary range, say 5000+ so that there won't be trials just sitting and waiting to run. When more dogs get into that range and start filling trials, then there could be more ranges added. (5000-7000, 7000-9000)

01-25-2012 at 3:15 AM

Oooh! I like this idea too. ^^

01-24-2012 at 10:21 PM

sericley if this was in the voteing thing and i still had my vote. id vote on it.

01-24-2012 at 10:18 PM

That actually sounds like a good idea Three:) This way it also won't take up as many of the limited amounts of trials either!

01-24-2012 at 9:27 PM

I agree with Kaeli and others on the energy. And maybe in this increase the value of energy companions or items since people would want the most trials.

01-24-2012 at 9:21 PM

I actually really like the idea of increasing energy per trial, especially if we increase it by tier. For instance, perhaps Dogbert could take 15 Energy, Scooby could take 20 energy, Odie could take 25 energy, Toto could take 35 energy, Marley; 45 energy, and so on and so forth. This seems like a realistic and viable solution to me.

01-24-2012 at 5:28 PM

<i>"Well then what if trials took up WAY more energy? And I mean way more, although I suck enough at math that I can't give you a good example."</i><br /> I dislike this idea. A dog normally at rollover can run 4 trials, it has to gain energy on it's own or with the aid of an energy companion through the rest of the day. It would have almost the same effect of limiting the # of trials a dog can run per day.

01-24-2012 at 12:23 PM

"Im good with this idea. This one i could agree with. Nice thinking Three!"<br /> <br /> Yay, thanks! I wanted to come up with an option that doesn't favor one kind of trialer over the other. Now if only this was a poll option XD

01-24-2012 at 12:19 PM

Well then what if trials took up WAY more energy? And I mean way more, although I suck enough at math that I can't give you a good example.<br /> <br /> Im good with this idea. This one i could agree with. Nice thinking Three!

01-24-2012 at 12:11 PM

"Or we can simply get rid of the trial teams and keep what we payed real money for. The selling point of energy companions like the artic fox was to train more AND run more trials earning you money. You should get what you pay for, not have it"<br /> <br /> Well then what if trials took up WAY more energy? And I mean way more, although I suck enough at math that I can't give you a good example. This is actually a really awesome solution, in my opinion. People with energy companions would still be able to use them to trial more often than regular players, it would reduce the number of times a dog could trial a day, and it keeps people who can ONLY use trial teams happy, because they can still use their teams.

01-24-2012 at 12:08 PM

"Reducing the number of times a dog can trial would reduce the problem caused by trial teams"<br /> <br /> Or we can simply get rid of the trial teams and keep what we payed real money for. The selling point of energy companions like the artic fox was to train more AND run more trials earning you money. You should get what you pay for, not have it changed a year later.

01-24-2012 at 12:07 PM

derp double post DX

01-24-2012 at 11:55 AM

Reducing the number of times a dog can trial would reduce the problem caused by trial teams. Stopping trial teams entirely is an awful way to do this, because then only people with TP capped dogs could win. I even have a TP capped dog and I STILL think this is messed up and biased towards older, richer players. So then the rich would be getting more rich and the poor would be getting more poor and we'd end up with this ugly economy with no "middle class" players<br /> <br /> Plus I want to add that by trialing my teams I make about 10,000/15,000 a day. That's if I trial my teams as many times as possible. Usually I make maybe 5k a day, and that's about the same amount I make from playing games daily, so I don't see it as a problem. That's hardly a massive influx of cash. That's enough to buy maybe one dog. I'd have to have up for an entire week or two of excessive trialing just to pay for an item in the monthly shop. And you know what? I think that's pretty good. I'm not complaining about that at all. I don't make a LOT with trials, but I make enough to save up and get what I want. I'm a happy camper. And as the teams go higher and higher in the ranks they make less and less money (most of my dogs are about 500 - 1000 TP). The only people who will make massive amounts of money with trial teams are the people with a bunch of capped dogs. And if you stop trial teams, the only people who make ANY money will be people with capped dogs. And this is, like I said before, coming from someone who has a capped dog. But I love my little TP dogs just as much as my capped one. I'd be sad not to trial them ever again.

01-24-2012 at 9:53 AM

You're not bein' a butt. That is true.<br /> <br /> That's what I get for being irritated and typing at like 2am EST. :P<br /> <br /> Though it was stated earlier that at some point the magical bowls were being sold in shop for like 200k or something. >.> I don't know how long ago that was or if all the hoarded ones could be used up by now.

01-24-2012 at 3:01 AM

I don't mean to butt in here but I think this statement is a bit incorrect:<br /> <i>"I don't consider buying a capped dog actual work. Breeding your own, yes. But buying one, water bowling it, then basically earning that money back and then some if you trial smart? Not really."</i><br /> <br /> It's a lot of work. Assuming you are maxing the capped dog with a Magical Water Bowl, you must first raise enough $$ to buy one, which can cost around 3 million $$. Say this is your first MWB, you have to somehow raise that much $$ to buy a MWB and add the cost of a capped dog onto that. Great, now it's maxed. In my scenario the dog is of trialing age. Now you have to trial that dog like mad to earn back that 3 million. A long, long, long time goes into that. Lots of money, lots of time, lots of trials.<br /> In my second scenario, you're using a Magical Food Bowl on a dog and the dog is of trialing age. Now you have to train that dog the rest of the way in a reasonable amount of time because if you take too long, it can't trial for very long and is a waste of time. I've hand-maxed three foodbowled dogs, it takes a long long long time and many sessions and my dogs only get maxed because I have a Baby T-Rex, Scholar Collar, Trainer Perk, Autofeeder, Rejuvenator, Timewarp, Magical Rubber Balls/Revitalizers, Agility Affair Chow, Golden Leash, Soapy Bath Tubs and 150 sessions all used on it.<br /> A lot of time and a lot of $$ goes into maxing a capped dog.

01-24-2012 at 2:06 AM

I don't consider buying a capped dog actual work. Breeding your own, yes. But buying one, water bowling it, then basically earning that money back and then some if you trial smart? Not really.<br /> <br /> It's kind of already been shown that dogs who are able to make millions over their trialing career may be one of the causes of Ala's current inflation problem. So I'd say that buying and maxing capped dogs are definitely investments that pay out decent in the long run.<br /> <br /> And Jambers, please don't talk to me like I'm a lazy person. That's insulting. It just so happens that the breed I work with has a very low average TP. The top dawg for borzoi only has about 3k TP. <br /> <br /> I don't have a problem finding empty trials to place my dogs in. The problem is after I put them in, someone else puts in a dog (or dogs) that destroys my own in skill. That is why I use trial teams.<br /> <br /> I'm currently breeding higher TP borzoi, but it takes a lot of time and... oh yeah... work.<br /> <br /> Meanwhile, my main source of income is trying to sell pups since I can't yet make much in trials. This is not a steady source of income.<br /> <br /> I could put my borzoi maxing program on halt to buy a capped dog and max it, but my main priority is to see borzoi up there in TP with the other breeds.<br /> <br /> I'd be in support of other competitions that allowed even low TP dogs to make their owners' reasonable income, but currently, none really exist.<br /> <br /> That's why I'm an advocate of the TP range system.<br /> <br /> Yes, it's different from how the trials are run now. Different can be scary sometimes. But if enough time is taken to plan out the ranges so that there is a balance, I do believe that it could work.<br /> <br /> Yes, TP ranges make it easier for people with low TP dogs to play. I think that's fair since usually people with lower TP dogs are new to the site and are still trying to understand how to play. I'm basing that statement off the fact that newer players have minimal training sessions and items when starting out. I believe that they acquire dogs that they can actually max within a reasonable amount of time (and then breed). <br /> <br /> If you want to encourage people to trial dogs, shouldn't there be something set in place in the beginning that shows them "Oh, trials are a fun way for me to earn an income!"? I feel like it's damaging to site game-play to allow people with higher TP dogs to trounce on folks who most likely are still trying to figure out how this stuff works. If people aren't having fun trialing, they won't do it. <br /> <br /> Should only people who have been playing long enough to have higher TP dogs be allowed to make money off of trials at the expense of those who are still learning and unable to afford or properly train higher TP dogs? Is that supposed to be the motivation that causes people to want to breed higher TP dogs? If trialing is a major source of income, but someone starting out with lower TP dogs can't trial, how are they supposed to earn enough income to get to that point?<br /> <br /> Yes, you want to encourage people to spend real world money on the site to buy bones and upgrades, but, starting out, they aren't going to ever get there if they can't play decently on the site.<br /> <br /> By themselves, solutions 1 through 3 will all make trialing lower TP dogs basically obsolete. Low TP dogs usually can't win trials if they aren't teamed, and they don't make much money off placing in trials as is. If the prizes were reduced further, it would be pointless to enter them at all. If low TP dogs were never meant to trial in the first place, I think it would be better to not allow them to run trials at all. Is that extreme? Not really. That's basically what solutions 1 through 3 would do.<br /> <br /> At least with option 1, if it's paired with TP ranges, lower TP dogs can still have a chance to place. Otherwise, option 1 completely destroys their chances.

01-24-2012 at 1:24 AM

<i>"Read whe WHOLE thing not just parts."</i><br /> <br /> I did. Your post was, and I quote: "Doing away with the companions abilitys aka being able to enter trials because of the extra energy."<br /> <br /> To me this implies you believe they're making the +energy companions null & void on trialing dogs to cripple people from entering trials.<br /> It has absolutely nothing to do with energy. It has to do with coding saying "this dog can only enter trials __ times per day. It has run ___ trials, therefore it can/can't run more trials". Excess energy has absolutely nothing to do with this coding and would have no effect whatsoever.<br /> <br /> <i>"it is a bad idea to split trials up by TP it has been sugested and turned down to meny times"</i><br /> I'd like to know where you heard this from. I was in chat when this idea has been suggested and I know Jackdaw was talking about it the other day. She didn't shut it down once and she's an admin. If you would speak up about when/where you heard an admin/robyn/whoever say "no, we are not doing this at all, ever" I would believe your statement has any sort of credibility but as it stands.. I don't buy it, because I've heard otherwise.<br /> <br /> <i>"Trials would barley run for high TP dogs because there trally arnt a lot of maxed capped dogs."</i><br /> Incorrect. My trial dogs are all capped dogs in Otis/Marley. I would create trials that would run for capped dogs.<br /> <br /> <i>"but WORKING for the win is better than expecting people to change the way everything is done simply because your<br /> A.) New to the game<br /> or B.) like low TP dogs."</i><br /> This statement doesn't make sense or hold any water. If you enter your dogs into my trial with three of my capped dogs in it, you've just wasted trial entry money. There isn't a single chance ever that your low-tp dogs will beat my dogs, ever. It's just not possible in Alacrity. There is no "working" to defeat a capped dog in a trial with a low-tp dog. It's just unfair and not even any competition.<br /> <br /> I apologize if I came off as a bit crass.